posted on May 23, 2012 at 9:56 am

saint steven shot with light

unfathomable ineffable god

needed some cat to dig some parts of his creation

that no one was picking up on and so he created me

he chucked me together nearly sixty years ago

and he said to me as he has always said to me

my man look at all this stuff !

and true enough with just the thinnest skin that is bearable

i have drunk deep of his creation

and verily i am staggering in amazement

did he realise….?

that he had imbued me with my own tiny propensity for creation

as part of him i strive to be like him

as a drop of water is to the sea

i have all of his propensities but in childish minuscule proportions

i cannot create worlds

so i create worlds within music and words and art

yes tangible worlds i weave according to my various ways

which are all laughable compared to my god

but still i am driven on to do this stuff

therefore i reaffirm my abhorrence of dissonance and ugliness

i scorn noise drivel gossip horror foulness stupidity in art

i cannot abide entertainment whose central theme is murder

not the detection of it

or the act of it

or the irony of it

or the apprehension n punishment of it

why would i sully my mind with this nonsense?

crime is crime

i find no entertainment in violence or killing

cops and robbers cowboys and indians goodies n baddies

what rubbish!

give me ecstatic confirmation of life

give me beauty give me radiance give me mastery

give me sadness yes but not misery

i reject miserable art

i reject art that is only angry

i reject political art ; it finds no place in my heart

i reject art with any agenda

unless its agenda be astonishment poignancy or love

i reject ugly bawling voices and ignorant words

i reject unoriginality

i reject the slaughter of innocent animals

thou shalt not kill!

did i fucking stutter?

therefore i reject war and i reject the slaughterhouse

i reject the paltry reasons proffered for them

i marvel at my gods creation

which stems not from such embarrassing notions

as the garden of eden or big bang/evolution

both so quaint and parochial

that if there is a future they will wonder at our naivete

or the idiots who thought it must be one or the other

my god is so sublime he cannot be explained by me

except to say he just IS

he is n he was n he always will be

hes a she if you like or not for who can tell?

i am limited by words

and our clumsy words

are like trying to paint a ravishing nude

with a coin on a concrete wall

we do not have the words

we do not have the minds

so i do what i do

i can only hint at it

he is my god but he is not a tame god

he does not appear in test tubes

he does not fit in some stupid old mistranslated book

i am more in contact with god than a thousand popes

for what have they created but misery strife inquisitions and complicity in pain

i reject your ritual and pomp and money

i promise you karma is waiting patiently on popes and ayatollahs that preach war

or teachers of scriptures that cast women in a bad light

because i have observed women to be the crown of creation on this world

but a lion or a lark would disagree

for the females of each species are surely beautiful accordingly

all creatures have a right to live and love

who are we to judge which may live and which may die?

who are you to tell me the god given weed i so love is wrong?

tell me did vishnu make a mistake when he created marijuana or DMT?

is the poppy or the coca leaf evil or the wonderful vine which is ayahuasca ?

is the mushroom or the cactus button an error made by god

because some warmongering profiteering  WASP prick says so?


i reject their jurisdiction over my consciousness

the vegetal world was created by our loving god for us to use and discover

yes there are dangers

there are dangers in climbing his mountains

and swimming in his rivers too

so what?!

i reject destruction

i reject morbidity

i reject entertainment featuring autopsies and suchlike

i reject death metal and songs about putrefaction

i reject rap for its brutal boring misogynistic tediousness

i reject blokes drinking booze and screaming at sport on tvs in bars

i reject royal families

and ponces decorated with medals for wars they never fight in

i reject generals

and presidents who send others to death but never fight themselves

i reject barbeques

i reject cigarettes and alcohol which numb and sicken us

i reject the makers of such things growing fat on our misery

i reject countries that assassinate their own leaders

and stage phoney attacks to provoke more wars

i reject the prison industry and the caging of people

i reject the caging of birds too or anything unnecessarily

i reject hunting

i reject napoleon i reject hitler i reject bush

i embrace jesus i embrace krishna i embrace john lennon

i embrace dali i embrace picasso i embrace leonardo

i embrace poor vincent van go go

i embrace magic i reject horseracing

i embrace music i reject noise

i reject fun i embrace wonder

i reject pubs and  casinos

i embrace yoga and greek myths

i embrace buddha i embrace shiva i embrace st francis of assisi

i embrace gandhi i embrace suu kyi

i am for creation

i am for the intangible the inexorable the inevitable

my songs are about spirit

my poems are about spirit

my paintings are about spirit

my bass playing is about spirit

my voice is about spirit

my daughters are about spirit

and my spirit

is about my god

and everything good i have ever done

comes from god

via spirit

so start here:

never ever eat meat!





143 Responses to “appetite for creation”

  1. avatar
    Brien Comerford | 23 May 2012 at 10:47 am #

    This is the optimal Steven John Kilbey blog. God did bestow SK with talent on a par with each respective individual Beatle. Kind of a hyprid of Fab Three. Lennon’s lyrical talent. MACCAS humane vegetarianism and stellar bass skills, and especially George (spiritual mysticism and vocal talents.) I guess I could say he’s funny like Ringo too based on the Aria speech and television programs. Today the Time Being was the ideal read. It merits commendation, laudation, approbation and appreciation.

  2. avatar
    BROKEN TOYS AND HEROS | 23 May 2012 at 10:51 am #

    The greatest gift that God gave us was Freewill…
    As you described with conviction and intelligence above,
    you are easily able to project your ‘rejections and all that you embrace’ for
    all of us to feel apart of or feel different from…

    I agree so much with what you write and by Gods grace of individuality,
    I disagree with some of your beliefs…
    That is the beauty of living under the sun, moon, and stars…
    We can agree to disagree…

    Simply beautiful – brilliant writing today…
    I hope you do understand that living true to ones own opinions
    does not make any less or more than each other…

    We have all been created equal and must do our best to live
    our lives accordingly…

    Much love and respect, very courageous of you to define yourself…

    Enjoy the time with your angels that you graced this world so
    proudly with…
    And thank you for always remaining true to yourself…


  3. avatar
    colette | 23 May 2012 at 11:05 am #

    I think I said recently as a child I liked the idea of dying. Have said it before too. It was not a negative thought except in its reflection of this world but I had some wonderful idea about the next. Sometimes I still get glimpses of that experience if thinking,imagining is an experience. Even in times of doubt, nothingness just seems like complete peace. In a nutshell, I think the best way to get through this world is to attempt not to compare or judge. May anger be righteous. With humility and voicing of truth (the truth is I’m human and I try not to lie) all is forgiven.

  4. avatar
    colette | 23 May 2012 at 12:08 pm #

    Honestly I do have to admit that certain theses begin a snowball of thought (is that healthy? I ask myself and answer, it is good to express at least). So taking on board some ideals or what is actual practice to some, I begin to wonder about things like, plastics, paper, plants (which live and which we kill), ecosystems, recycling. Too much obsessing about anything will lead to neurosis I know but I know awareness is also good. Try to be aware and do one’s best as I said. Regarding spending, I think a good philosophy is to just replace what is about to disintegrate if necessary…Violence in entertainment. Steven, I was wondering about your penchant for ancient history. Some of those stories, i know from learning Latin, are frigging gruesome, just like some of those Biblical stories I learnt at school. Thankfully I was an intelligent (?) enough child to try and see the caution in the tales, the lessons in the parables and their reflection of our human nature. Some of that stuff was written in that exaggerated way so that when read aloud to the illiterate, skeptical or simple (how can I say that without seeming elitist?), the stories had impact, so not necessarily to be taken literally. All still interesting to think about to an extent. I guess if after all that thought my instincts took over too much, I’d then go to confession. Gosh better try and enjoy the rest of the gorgeous autumn day in Sydney is all I can say now 🙂

    • avatar
      BROKEN TOYS AND HEROS | 23 May 2012 at 3:52 pm #

      Outstanding comment Colette !!!
      Spot on as always !!!

      Enjoy each and every Autumn day …


  5. avatar
    honest mick | 23 May 2012 at 12:30 pm #

    Thanks for your thoughts Steve, they make me think, deeply. I hoped you enjoyed the Spacefarmers cd, there is a couple of good songs but mostly not. Do you want a copy of our new cd? We recorded in a rehearsal space with 2 mics. Carry on.

  6. avatar
    narelle | 23 May 2012 at 12:34 pm #

    well thats quite a relief and a beautiful piece of prose Steve
    glad to hear that you reject ugliness
    began to wonder why on earth Steve would apologise to a certain person that made a low life, scum bag comment recently…and then…apologised to the arsehole (must have been the jet lag!!!!)

    just one thing I do not get is, why object to caging criminals…justice has its place and if a cage is their karma…cage the animals and keep them well away from doing further harm

    noticed a another ‘lost’ bird notice pinned to a pole last night…yay…another free little bird

  7. avatar
    Anonymous | 23 May 2012 at 12:59 pm #

    indeed —
    corpses are to be buried not eaten
    it’s so simple

  8. avatar
    Garrett | 23 May 2012 at 1:40 pm #

    meet me in the middle will ya…

  9. avatar
    Derek | 23 May 2012 at 1:42 pm #

    I think angry art can be some of the best art out there – especially when the anger is directed at something like war or hatred. Protest songs, however, always suck, and have for the 40 years since Dylan stopped doing them. It’s incredibly difficult to write music with a message without preaching and sounding like a pompous blowhard. I guess that’s why so many people despise Bono, despite all of the wonderful things he’s done to fight poverty and AIDS. Americans prefer a dumbass to a know-it-all – it’s why Bush beat Gore.
    I guess what I’m trying to say is: please never write a song about vegetarianism and if you do, expect backlash from the states.

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 23 May 2012 at 2:14 pm #

      bush didnt beat gore. he actually lost…remember. then his fucking moron brother cheated for the bastard!

    • avatar
      IncorrectPolitically | 23 May 2012 at 4:10 pm #

      Such a thoughtful and accurate comment til you decided to judge Americans as a
      whole. We are not what the media presents us to be out of pure jealousy regarding
      our freedoms. Please be careful where you tread, Americans embraced Steve and his
      bandmates to the tune of certified gold and have assisted Steve in so many ways in his
      productive and creative career. If SK wrote a song about vegetarian lifestyles, it would
      be welcomed because many of us do not judge so harshly. I do not know your country origin,
      but it most likely has its faults also. Please do not judge the majority based on the complete
      ignorance of of some of the minority. It lacks stature and significance, it turns a thought
      provoking comment into a jealous rant.

      IP =^}

  10. avatar
    huckbuck | 23 May 2012 at 2:08 pm #

    I reject ignorance even if governments build food pyramids to convince people wrongly there’s an excuse to eat meat – and also there should be gentleness taught to all of our children and not to believe what is purposely pounded into heads/brainwashing for profit. I cry sometimes as I watch a world becoming too the same, too “one” way. Not really a fan of globalization — seems going badly thus far… denying facts/believing corporate filtering has become the occupation of waste to the masses… rap is intricate in all of this – I think it was an accident at first, but then another profiteer caught on and it became the biggest (and so cheap to produce too!!!) marketing vehicle yet; not art: I look at art forms as a gifted “choice” to comfort/become with beauty for each of us and also to understand others… mirroring our happiness/how we think/feel and understanding others’; that rap (the biggest, BIGGER THAN BOY BANDS AND BRITTANY AND THE REST OF THE LOT!!! – they were the precursors that brought a new generation to their feet clamoring: tawdry is fashion! rap accidentally became the next/cheaper experiment in our lifetime… besides the onset of drivethrough eateries, the other biggest downfall of our time)– if rap is what makes people happy/feel love, I can’t understand how it is so, but the overall results provided our culture via rap just won’t let up/let go; it’s so powerful, even if only the hormonal and chemical changes rap prompts in our bodies — it’s infiltrated too far; it scares me – not the songs themselves, but where those songs have lead a world (except Falco – bless his soul!!!)… I think it’s going to get worse, not better because the violence and intolerance and pride in deplorable morals laced not only in the lyrics but that brainwashing beat’s unspoken purpose has become normal thought — (not to be mean or anything but) I could never imagine touching someone/allowing their touch if that type music makes them feel good/would be like communing with a science fiction monster emotionally — violence: sounds and words manipulated as entertainment – (the Romans were cool [too] at one point – like the Greeks – until they got bored and entertained themselves with always elevated forms of control/torture and conquering; and the goal of this behavior? Is there ever an end/satisfaction when their only goal was more? That is what hell is, I think… Tell me [Mick], why didn’t they listen to you? Had it not been that the Romans enslaved the Greeks (I believe – not proven/talked about much) with the cooking utensils that the greeks (good cooks) used, as the Roman bodies weren’t geographically adequate to properly take in the minerals/toxins that leaked out from the pots/pans brought/used to cook for their new masters – into their foods – It poisoned them/not intentionally, but within only a couple generations, they were all goofballs and were having horribly defected children (low iq’s and disfigurements and early deaths/disease; too many history books don’t include this part of history! They should — we might look at all the stuff corporations now put into our lives a little differently; we’d be better off. !!!… The (slow) downfall of the roman empire — what should have been remembered way more than we have, is now being repeated. Does anyone care that they’re being lead into an unimaginable chemical dna changing disaster? Add to the brew: One more generation inducted into mindless/brainwashing images of sound and sight and always told that it’s cool to like that stuff – and I don’t think there is a chance of going back… that frightens me and I don’t scare easily; but/cuz nobody is going to owe up to their caustic indifferences over profits (knowing) they are purposely guiding people into slowly deformed existences, – I listen to people as they talk about stuff they heard was bad (yesterday on the news) while they scarf down fast food and sodas and an antacid; — why are you concerned/telling me how bad “that” is? (I start thinking) add to it, reality tv… cheap/cheap/cheap productions of no value, and teaches people horrible social skills – sociopathic manners to be one of the least offensive (have become what everyone wishes they could be/mimmicks). and child beauty pageants/queens and 14 yr old models dressed as temptresses break my heart – they’ll be unrecognizable to themselves as individuals by the time they’re 20 the maturation of a child’s development isn’t suppose to be tied to odd fetishes for the enjoyment of adults. Why still? Hadn’t we learned this through the popes of the dark ages and some wild victorian tales?

    But rap – even worse: they finally found the bullet to control everything! we’ve allowed the conquering of this world with rap! just on thoughts re rap? Gazillions of them… one to leave – and it’s poignant and easily “ewed”… You know how people often conjure feelings and become romantic while listening to music? The thought of two bodies while listening to that is beyond comprehension – I can’t understand any emotional process that could take place other than a splitting headache from the rage – it just gives me the emotional heebeegeebees to imagine and I shut down thinking about why for fear of a nightmare.)

    Rant much? (sorry…)

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 23 May 2012 at 2:13 pm #


    • avatar
      DavidP | 24 May 2012 at 12:34 am #

      I read this article about a week ago
      of course I don’t know one way or the other but it was an interesting conspiracy to read about

      • avatar
        huckbuck | 24 May 2012 at 2:44 am #

        huck and buck were beloved pets – they were our bunnies and both just the nicest little guys and we loved them… (bunnies are so smart and affectionate) then one day, I came home early (luckily) from work to find my son and his friend in tears… and three dogs – pitbulls – with blood dripping from their mouths… our new neighbors were rap fans and not my favorites… just smile and wave and try to keep distance… they’d gotten high and their dogs got out – Huck and Buck had been in their cage in my florida room in the back of our house. The dogs had broken into my back screened in porch area and had killed both rabbits. My son and his friend (about 7 yrs old) were courageously naive at the onset of chasing these pits down… as I turned around, one of them was coming back at the boys — I tripped the dog mid-air and luckily he fell hard enough he stayed down dazed (the power of mommies — all 110 pounds when we’re protecting turns into a rocket)… the other two dogs were a house/yard away but heard the yelp of the other and I saw them coming back at us… I was leaning against my car/trying to catch my breath as I saw the two looking at us as their next attack… and got in my car (luckily it was a Renault LeCar — tiny with great maneuvering) and quickly started it/drove it across my lawn to the neighbors/ran over one of the dogs… the other got away. Called the police: when they saw the carnage and it was explained… there was an all-points bulletin/the whole police force shut the streets down and they were in pursuit of the remaining dog. (I love animals, so this is tragic all the way around) It took hours but the cops found the last pit bull – it was destroyed.

        After, the “neigbors” were arrested and had warrants on them/were taken back to prison. I heard later they pressed charges on me and the police force. The police threw out the charges against me/I wasn’t arrested… but the cops were sued for some goofy civil rights violation — and you know what? They won 100s of thousands of dollars — sitting in their trust funds until they were released (again) from prison. This was early 90s… one of those neighbors (won’t name) has become an international hip hop star… hmmm? Me. I had to move (across country) – every morning when I’d be leaving (my house was viewable from my office window and my other neighbors/parents of my son’s friend, drove them to/from school — ) to go to work, there would be a dead animal on my front porch — neighbors cats, dogs, a bird, a decapitated possum. My “boss” had to go on tranquilizers — they harassed him too/I wasn’t fired but was asked/paid to leave his employment. I got the message. The police had to have a car sitting in front of my home at all times until I moved one night in the middle of the night – not telling anyone where we were going. So… reading what DavidP posted — and the timing/era – it kinda fills in the blanks (thank you) as to how/why the world has since formed commonplace landscapes of rap/hiphop incidents — just as this one still breaks my heart (but had not timing been correct at that exact moment, my son and Andrew (his friend)… I can’t even imagine …it would’ve become even more tragic/devestating – I don’t know what would have happened, but know I’d have been in prison for the rest of my life for killing those assholes (and I know killing’s wrong; don’t think I would have been able to help myself though – it was that gruesome and their attitude after the fact – nothing was their fault and they became the “victims” – how insane) (PS – this is nothing against pitbulls – have friends who have the same breed and their’s are lovely/sweet animals)

        Ahh, rap music and its memories…

        • avatar
          Larry Smith | 24 May 2012 at 4:59 am #

          I’m sorry those things happened to you, but to blame music on the decline of civility is pure ignorance. The music is reflecting the decline, it did not make the decline. It is true that there are “former” thugs on the charts pushing hate and violence for profit. Does that damn all of the genre because the general public eats that crap up? Blame not the music, but the people who love to be spoonfed crap all their lives and celebrate mediocrity. Don’t cast Public Enemy, The Roots and De La Soul with the same brush as NWA and Lil’ Wayne. Rock and Pop both have some questionable values pushed forth, rap music is hardly the spearhead some make it out to be.

          • avatar
            thetimebeing | 24 May 2012 at 6:46 am #

            thats true

          • avatar
            huckbuck | 24 May 2012 at 10:23 am #

            I’m only sorry for the two bunnies and three dogs that lost their lives… it was quite sad all the way around. And I agree: let’s not forget Stephan Jenkins… can that guy rap or what – it’s so beautiful when he does! you’re right: it wasn’t the music that killed them; it was the person(s) who reveled in/identified with the music/genre that did so; and then became… My secondary comment re Huck and Buck was cuz when the author of this blog first wrote this entry, they were who I initially thought of/used their names – the “rememberance” of them came after DavidP provided his link/I read. Years came together as I read it. Chin-Chin… and my best.

          • avatar
            thetimebeing | 24 May 2012 at 4:07 pm #

            i hate a whole family of guinea pigs and a white rabbit which were ripped apart by a neighbours dog when i was 4
            we came home and there were bits of em everywhere
            cant blame the dog…it is their nature
            but we dont have to be dogs ourselves…..

  11. avatar
    evilren | 23 May 2012 at 3:25 pm #

    We love you brother.

  12. avatar
    bernadette keys | 23 May 2012 at 4:39 pm #

    Not your best or any where near it really.

  13. avatar
    larry | 23 May 2012 at 4:43 pm #

    Bush is indeed a bastard. I much prefer Obama and his daily unmanned drone attacks throughout the world. Currently in six countries. Three cheers!

  14. avatar
    Chris | 23 May 2012 at 4:49 pm #

    ..and to add to my little offering above about world religions and ‘The Time Being’…’Appetite for Creation’ is just such a work. Never have I read such a courageous, prophetic, self-aware modern creed. It has the insight of the Prophets; the rhythmic beauty of the Psalms; the reflective honesty of Job; the confessional nature of St.Paul; the clarity of the Buddha; the richness of language of The Vedas; and the guts and poetic spirit of modern psychadelic Rock. Nice one Mr.SK…again…

  15. avatar
    Chris | 23 May 2012 at 4:59 pm #

    p.s.I like Steve’s judicious use of ‘fuck’ in his work and life eg. ‘Did I fucking stutter’, “I was so overcome I completely fucked-up the bass line” (Arias on ‘The Real thing’), ‘..and we still don’t pay ourselves any fucking royalties..”. The history of ‘fuck’ is hard to trace. Written form only attested from early 16c. OED 2nd edition cites 1503, in the form ‘fukkit’; earliest appearance of current spelling is 1535: “Bischops … may fuck thair fill and be vnmaryit” [Sir David Lyndesay, “Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaits”], but presumably it is a much more ancient word than that, simply one that wasn’t likely to be written in the kind of texts that have survived from O.E. and M.E. Buck cites proper name John le Fucker from 1278. The word apparently is hinted at in a scurrilous 15c. poem, titled “Flen flyys,” written in bastard L. and M.E. The relevant line reads: Non sunt in celi quia fuccant uuiuys of heli
    “They [the monks] are not in heaven because they fuck the wives of Ely.” Fuccant is pseudo-Latin, and in the original it is written in cipher. The earliest examples of the word otherwise are from Scottish, which suggests a Scandinavian origin, perhaps from a word akin to Norw. dial. fukka “copulate,” or Swedish dial. focka “copulate, strike, push,” and fock “penis.” Another theory traces it to M.E. fkye, fike “move restlessly, fidget,” which also meant “dally, flirt,” and probably is from a general North Sea Gmc. word, cf. M.Du. fokken, Ger. ficken “fuck,” earlier “make quick movements to and fro, flick,” still earlier “itch, scratch;” the vulgar sense attested from 16c. This would parallel in sense the usual M.E. slang term for “have sexual intercourse,” swive, from O.E. swifan “to move lightly over, sweep” (see swivel). ‘Fuck off’ is attested to from 1929; as a command to depart, by 1944. ‘Flying fuck’ originally meant “have sex on horseback” and is first attested c.1800 in broadside ballad “New Feats of Horsemanship.” Also shown to relieve stress in times of crisis if not overused. (This last one I find hilarious!)

  16. avatar
    Meg D | 23 May 2012 at 5:20 pm #

    Dear Steve

    Tick to everything: but barbeques???? What about vegie burgers?

    If I don’t say much else it’s because words are inadequate.


  17. avatar
    andy | 23 May 2012 at 6:15 pm #

    must be the raspberies and that elderflower drink stimulating the olde grey
    severige suits you steve.

    • avatar
      colette | 24 May 2012 at 1:02 am #

      sk made a slightly cannibalistic reference to raspberries the other day, but has already apologised and wasn’t taken literally anyway…

  18. avatar
    Chris | 23 May 2012 at 6:23 pm #

    The word Islam comes from the Arabic greeting: “Salaam” which means “peace”.

    Christians in the ancient world greeted each other with the word “pax” which is latin for “peace”. They share the peace of God each week in church worship.

    In Buddhism, Buddhists strive to reach Nirvana, a state of spiritual enlightenment that brings harmony and peace.

    The Hindu greeting, “Namaste” can mean “ your spirit and mine are one” or “we are in harmony and at peace with each other.”

    The Jewish greeting “shalom” is similar to the Arabic greeting “salaam” and means “peace”.

    These 5 world religions account for 2/3 of all people on earth.

    There are 2.4 billion Christians, 1.3 billion Moslems, 1 billion Hindus, 400 million Buddhists and 50 million Jews.

    We can see from this brief overview that the majority of people in their religious beliefs are striving for peace, even if we don’t always see this on the nightly news. In many ways, the world religions have much in common. They all have forms of prayer, they all have holy writings that followers read to guide their daily living, they all have places of worship – be they churches, mosques, temples or synagogues, and they are all striving to bring peace to the earth.

    The problem with using only the TV news to make our judgements about these religions is that the news loves conflict; it’s dramatic and gets your attention, so that you will watch the ads between the news and make money for the TV station when you buy those products. Thus religious terrorists and extremists make the news, but the millions of peaceful followers of those religions don’t. We will never see a news story that says 500 million Moslems went to work today, came home, had dinner with their family, helped their children do their homework, and went to bed. However, we will hear that 10 Moslem extremists planned to make a bomb and were arrested. To then judge all Moslems by the behaviour of these 10 is illogical. It would be as illogical as saying that after 10 Christians in Ireland tried to bomb a pub, we would then say that all 2.4 billion Christians in the world are terrorists…but this is the jump in logic we often make, or the media would like us to make.

    What I love about Steve’s work is his ability to make me think anew about the God, and to think in another way about all the other world religions: they all have positive things that they are trying to bring to our world.
    So peace, pax, shalom, salaam, namaste.. and keep at it, Steve…you are God’s ‘stone in our shoe’.

  19. avatar
    Chris | 23 May 2012 at 6:25 pm #

    Authentic humanness is not wholeness, self-mastery, self-containment: we are most authentically human when we are cracked, when each of us bleeds out into the lives of others.~Rowan Williams. You are an authentic human, Steve…and a Renaissance man.

  20. avatar
    Chris | 23 May 2012 at 6:53 pm #

    Sorry about the fucking verbal diarrhea, but I’m on a ‘Time Being’ high…This is so fokking good: The difficulty of all social exchange lies in the fact that human persons must always remain strange and mysterious to one another. You can never achieve a complete understanding of another person; the better you know someone, the more mysterious they become. Social life, therefore, is not about collapsing differences or engineering an artificial unity. Instead differences should be accentutated as sharply as possible, so that what you experience in another person is not fantasy, not another projection of yourslef, but the real intractable mystery of another self. You can never be done with another person, since every advance in knowing is opening on to a greater mystery.~Rowan Williams. Thanks for taking us all on your mysterious journey with you, Steve. ‘The Time Being’ is a luminous patch of mystery in a sea of mediocrity.

    • avatar
      narelle | 25 May 2012 at 4:38 am #

      hello Chris
      not sure if you get to read a mag called Living Now
      anyway…to add to what you have just touched on…I think you would love the brief by A. C. Ping, ‘We live in a bubble’…just checked and it is online

      PS hello Steve…are things still going well for Miranda?

      • avatar
        thetimebeing | 25 May 2012 at 8:34 am #

        yes narelle
        we talked for a long long time today
        mainly about game of thrones and scarlet kilbey
        our 2 favourite subjects

  21. avatar
    Michel | 23 May 2012 at 9:34 pm #

    Reading you makes me feeel like John Lennon climbing the stairs to discover Yoko’s message with a magnifying glass : “yes”.
    I am just sorry I can’t obey the last will about eating meat. I am a dirty frenchman from Gascony and our only religion is duck liver, so my aunt would ban me if I should not take it twice in family meals !
    Oh, and there was a bunch of good songs in Appetite for Destruction (today’s picture is more “hearts’n’roses style), I remember, well maybe not, actually haven’t listen to it since 1988 (The Church swept away all Axls then…).

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 24 May 2012 at 12:42 am #

      duck liver is disgusting and obscene
      and the desire to eat it is a travesty
      use your brain man!

  22. avatar
    DavidP | 23 May 2012 at 10:13 pm #

    Agreed with a lot you wrote there sk. However. God made poison and blackholes too but I reckon he would recommend staying away from those. Likewise I think certain vegetal compounds are better avoided. Its my understanding and experience they stir up and strengthen the subconscious inner states and so cloud and weaken the consciousness and also they damage the astral body, amongst other things. I used to partake in the thc quite regularly and I had a vivid dream once during that time which showed me its very detrimental. The sort of dream where you intuitively know a higher benevolent power is directing it in order to teach you something.
    Each to their own of course and I don’t think prohibition works either.
    I just offer this perspective in the spirit of friendship. There’s plenty of other things one can do to relax and wind down and explore consciousness.
    Glad to hear your Miranda is ok.

  23. avatar
    Brien Comerford | 23 May 2012 at 11:59 pm #

    Morrissey made a fortune writing about vegetarianism “Meat IS Murder”. I love MOZ but he’s not as talented or spiritual as SK.

  24. avatar
    evilren | 24 May 2012 at 12:47 am #

    Chris makes some excellent points.

  25. avatar
    Larry Smith | 24 May 2012 at 2:19 am #

    Struck a big old nerve with a hammer on that one. I am moved, and inspired. Blessed with child eyes, and ears to match. I stopped eating meat today. Not because of this blog, but affirmation has never been so quick!

  26. avatar
    jjo | 24 May 2012 at 2:53 am #

    Nothing more convincing and comforting than a man’s belief. It usually indicates life is ok. over n out brussel sprout.

  27. avatar
    Boriah | 24 May 2012 at 3:35 am #

    The first album I bought with my own money (when I was 11) was Iron Maiden´s “Killers”, which I still think is a masterpiece. There´s more violence in everyday´s movies, videogames, news or even in cartoons for kids (all the time fighting) than in the entire Cannibal Corpse or Slayer´s discography. I love Metal, all kinds. But I also love some rock, bubblegum pop, techno, country, etc. I do agree in some of your points although it sounds too hippy for me :). Is “Appetite for destruction” a pro-violent, noisy album? Who cares, musically speaking it´s a fokking GREAT album! As for “noise”, well, evrything that moves makes music. All noise is music after all, a distortion of the waves. Some you like, some you dont. I like some drone music, for instance.

    As for vegetarianism, you´re ok, it´s way far healthier than eating red meat, and I can tell you for sure you look well because of your strict diet (full of antioxidants), but also because you do exercise regularly and… maybe because you where into heroin for ten years (!!!). Heroin works very differently depending on the individuals. Some guys become absolute human skeletons, but take a look at Perry Farrell for instance, or at you. There´s a theory that for some people heroin is like formaldehyde, in the long run it helps some ex-junkies to stay or look younger than they really are(!!). Biochemistry…


  28. avatar
    hippy | 24 May 2012 at 5:27 am #

    I embrace you. You are a not-for-profit prophet seeing through the veil. thank you for this.

  29. avatar
    Jesiah6 | 24 May 2012 at 7:48 am #

    I embrace great art! That’s why I’m reading your blogg.

    Love the line “I embrace magic I reject horse racing”.

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 24 May 2012 at 4:09 pm #

      riding horses is the pits
      they have to have their spirits broken first
      i’d rather ride a wave!

      • avatar
        eekie | 24 May 2012 at 5:32 pm #

        Not if it’s done correctly.
        Don’t assume the worst way is the only way. It isn’t…it’s just the way stupid people do it.
        Anyone who insists it’s the only way is misinformed or too stupid and lazy to take the time and effort to do it correctly.
        Not all learning/education is breaking the spirit, and training a horse correctly is simply teaching or educating it. Ideally a domestic horse should be in contact and handled by humans right from birth in a gentle and respectful way. That way when the horse is old enough to be trained for riding it’s not traumatic for them because they already know they can trust the people dealing with them.
        And a good rider has light hands and gives aids (signals) through mostly slight shifts of weight and sometimes voice. There should be nothing ham-fisted or coarse about it.

        I do note I’m not particularly fond of competition of any kind using horses though as I feel competitive people will push beyond what is reasonable and/or safe. If it’s just that individual…well, it’s their own choice. But when it involves something (in this case a horse) that doesn’t have a choice, I don’t like it. That said, I still think Thoroughbreds are among the most beautiful horses ever.

        • avatar
          colette | 25 May 2012 at 8:03 am #

          I agree Holly. A good rider on a well trained horse just enjoying being outside is a great example of harmony among humans. animals and nature.

          • avatar
            thetimebeing | 25 May 2012 at 8:33 am #

            i disagree
            no horse wants a human on its back
            why would it?
            thats wishful thinking

          • avatar
            eekie | 25 May 2012 at 9:06 am #

            And I respectfully say you do not know what you are talking about in this case.
            Have you ever been around horses (more than just walking by)?
            Have you ever dealt with them on a day to day basis over a long period of time?
            You believe what you want to believe about them. And that’s fine. But just because you believe it doesn’t make it true.

            I know I won’t change your mind on this, but you aren’t ever going to change my mind on this either.

          • avatar
            thetimebeing | 25 May 2012 at 5:08 pm #

            sorry holly
            i would say
            horses do not want to be ridden
            why the fuck would they need anybody on their back making em run around
            steering em with reins n such
            at the very very best they would tolerate it!

          • avatar
            Anonymous | 25 May 2012 at 11:04 pm #

            well I was sitting on the fence until I read somewhere else in these comments the derivation of ‘flying fuck’

  30. avatar
    Stewart | 24 May 2012 at 9:24 am #

    Wonderfully spirited writing. I doubt that we disagree about much. I cannot comprehend how anyone could either believe in a god that was fathomable and effable or fight over a (by definition) inaccurate depiction of the unfathomable and ineffable. The IS precedes and transcends human analytical potential, languages, religions, gender. It’s so far out of sight from some perspectives but so far out and out of sight when we catch a glimpse. It’s no mystery that everything is a mystery.

    This post has prompted me to attempt to analyse my tastes in art. I keep having to refine any measures to allow for exceptions or my inconsistencies. I certainly agree with your preference for “ecstatic confirmation of life…beauty…radiance…mastery”. I don’t mind artists’ agendas bleeding into their art and can like the art as long as I agree with the agendas. I like poignancy and love but don’t always like being astonished. I find parts of Maldoror a little grotesque for my general tastes. I can also appreciate some general political comment (‘Masters Of War’, ‘Give Me Some Truth’, “the emperor’s got no clothes”, “theyre all fucked” [smiles]).

  31. avatar
    Anonymous | 24 May 2012 at 10:30 am #

    happy is when you’re at peace… it’s a lot quieter than most people imagine.

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 24 May 2012 at 4:05 pm #

      contentment is the best thing
      happiness within peace

      • avatar
        Anonymous | 24 May 2012 at 4:45 pm #

        ah but how often do you really happen to be happy?
        “happiness in intelligent people…” yeah you know of course —
        i hope this moment of sunshine and peace and balance will last
        i really, really hope it will last for you steven—
        what a relief to see you free of suffering
        please, please, sustain… as long as you can
        draw it in, inhale, top off your capacity
        you will need this light
        accumulate it

        • avatar
          thetimebeing | 24 May 2012 at 6:10 pm #

          and you too
          whoever you are

          • avatar
            Anonymous | 25 May 2012 at 1:07 am #

            alyona (sorry didn’t log in again)—
            — at least the rest of your trip
            won’t be saturated in all consuming worry
            recharge under the the northern stars

      • avatar
        colette | 25 May 2012 at 8:05 am #

        I noticed blokes I’ve been involved with usually say they’re content when I’m most bored.

  32. avatar
    Chris | 24 May 2012 at 10:47 am #

    I was listening to ‘Space Saviour’ in the car on the way to work this morning, and I totally completely got it. So much so that I was in tears. Marty says that you have an intense ‘longing’ in your voice, Steve, and I realise from reading ‘appetite for creation’ that that intense longing we all relate to in your voice when singing, is the same intense spiritual longing you have to connect with Spirit in your life. I suddenly began to listen to your other songs in a totally new and connected way. I also realised why I have so connected with your music for 22 years without being able to verbalise it. Cool hippy moment!

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 24 May 2012 at 4:05 pm #

      gotta love the cool hippy moments
      i long for god
      i always have
      ah and thats what he wants (i expect)
      but still as george harrison sings
      “but it takes so long , my lord…!”

  33. avatar
    Chris | 24 May 2012 at 10:50 am #

    Trying to see God is a bit like the sun: we can’t see it directly, but by its light we see everything else.

  34. avatar
    evilren | 24 May 2012 at 11:06 am #

    I was heavy into Maiden, when I started listening to the Church. I was willing to broaden my musical likes from metal. Agreed death metal is not for everyone, people still listen to all types of music. Alex or Boriah brings up some good points.

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 24 May 2012 at 4:03 pm #

      each to their own
      i do not expect everyone to do as i do
      i’d rather listen to a tap dripping than that infantile tripe!
      but thats just me

  35. avatar
    Cocoamo | 24 May 2012 at 11:18 am #

    First, I love the photo – It’s my favorite one so far of all of them – Just beautiful – nice light!

    To everything you said – a thousand times yes. Almost made me cry when you usually make me laugh.

    Just saw a travelogue about the Basque region of France and Spain. Seems that growing marijuana for your own use is OK, but buying and selling it is not. Would like to know how that is working out, but sounds good to me. Sure would like to see something like that in the USA before I die (sigh).

    Your Friend in Pennsylvania

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 24 May 2012 at 4:01 pm #

      did it just get de-crimmed in nyc?
      hey MH much love ok
      youre very nice!

      • avatar
        Anonymous | 24 May 2012 at 10:30 pm #

        Still a lot of nonsense in NYC. They are trying to pass a bill legalizing medical use, but that depends on “compassionate Republicans” (I think an oxymoron). I say just forget the whole medical thing and decriminalize it for any use, but maybe the medical thing is a foot in the door.

        The following is cut-pasted from

        “Did you know New York is a “decrim” state?

        New York is one of the 13 states that penalize first-offense possession of a modest amount of marijuana with a fine instead of possible jail time. First-offense possession of up to 25 grams of marijuana is punishable by a $100 civil citation, although first-offense possession of between 25 grams and two ounces carries a $500 fine and up to three months in jail.

        Unfortunately, law enforcement have been able to exploit a loophole in the decriminalization law by getting an arrestee to expose his or her marijuana as “open to public view,” which converts the conduct into an arrestable offense. This has resulted in the second highest per capita marijuana arrest rate in the U.S., at almost 93,000 people per year.”

  36. avatar
    Steven Krut | 24 May 2012 at 1:43 pm #

    God is OK, I guess. Sometimes I get tired of his know-it-all attitude, though.

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 24 May 2012 at 3:59 pm #

      yeah well…..someones gotta know everything SK

      • avatar
        Steven Krut | 24 May 2012 at 4:36 pm #

        And that thing he does where he’s everywhere and everything? Talking about micromanagement! Geez! 😉

  37. avatar
    Lady Di | 24 May 2012 at 3:05 pm #

    You have a wonderful spirit sk.

    So pleased Miranda will be ok. She’s been in my prayers.
    You are a very caring and loving father.

  38. avatar
    Chris | 24 May 2012 at 5:03 pm #

    Found one….

  39. avatar
    andy | 24 May 2012 at 5:22 pm #

    spirit is where its at….
    how could anyone be an atheist?
    how arrogant would you have to be?

    ‘my dying bride’ are the most miserable,downbeat,plodding,noise behemoth of a band…yet amidst their doom-laiden grind they have manged to produce a few works of great beauty.
    just an example of how rules can be bent, but not broken.

    so glad the girl who inspired my favourite song is going to be ok,
    really enjoy your stay steve!
    ‘a change is as good as a rest’.

  40. avatar
    Thomas Thomsen | 24 May 2012 at 7:07 pm #

    Lovely blog, Steve!

    I’ll never tire of George Harrison’s “Hear Me Lord”. It just touches something deep inside me.

    “At both ends of the road
    To the left and the right
    Above and below us
    Out and in, there’s no place that you’re not in
    Oh, wont you hear me Lord”

  41. avatar
    Ingrid | 24 May 2012 at 8:13 pm #

    Hi SK, What can I say? You have just about tapped into everything that I feel strongly about. Intelligence and creativity abound here and I love that you share it with us.

  42. avatar
    Ingrid | 24 May 2012 at 8:29 pm #

    My daughter also loves St Lou Lou’s song. Stunning and melodic – one you just want to keep playing.

  43. avatar
    hellbound heart | 24 May 2012 at 9:13 pm #

    I think I see a glimpse of God when I look into my child’s eyes……

  44. avatar
    Tom | 25 May 2012 at 1:14 am #

    Here is an article which might interest you by David Lowery of Cracker and Camper Van Beethoven. His premise is that Apple and Amazon are worse for the music industry than the major record labels.

  45. avatar
    Larry Smith | 25 May 2012 at 2:36 am #

    Had to come back and read this again. The tide of ugliness just seems to be everywhere I step, and just beyond and out of focus is the creation. A slight turn of the head and the darkness becomes a running shadow. So hard to feel free while tied to everyday survival. To do so is hard, yet heroic. Someone is making a ton of money on us behaving like beasts. They like us that way. Conflict that is not physical is scary. “Wait, I have to think and use my soul to get out of this? HULK SMASH!!!” When we step out of line it scares the living hell INTO them. They become hell. The only reaction is to use force to put you back in line. They can’t see that the line is what is keeping them hemmed in as well. They think all that power and money sets them free, yet fear still makes them a slave to gross robot motion.

  46. avatar
    maybe one day I'll be able to sleep | 25 May 2012 at 3:11 am #

    Steve, I know you believe you met Krishna when you were finally able to sleep in rehab. I wish the divine were present – but I’ve never seen even a glimpse of it. Not anywhere. Not in anything. Seen lots of the opposite though, as have we all, and I’m just fucking tired of the human and all its shit. In Africa today, adult males rape babies in the belief that this will cure them of HIV. Next time you meet Krishna, could you ask him why?

  47. avatar
    Jonny Hollywood | 25 May 2012 at 3:21 am #

    it’s hard to quit eating meat when Mary keeps cooking it, as soon as you pick me up I will stop eating meat and I will stop smoking cigs 🙂 hurry up already I need a change…

  48. avatar
    Once | 25 May 2012 at 8:15 am #

    Karma waits for our hero
    She claims to have Robert De niro
    She’s discriminating
    She looks at the lives we’ve led
    Children aside bred
    Love given taken and more
    She keeps the score
    She knows you.
    At the end of your day she asks
    What did you do to help them?
    What did you to enrich their lives?
    What did you do to lead them
    What did you do to leave something behind?
    She’ll ask this and more
    At your final door
    Do not reach for that knob without resonance
    Do not keep to your job without precedence
    There’s nothing in life that means anything more
    Than the love you leave behind.

  49. avatar
    andy | 25 May 2012 at 8:23 am #

    oh…bloody hell,
    it’s begun allready.
    welcome to the meat market……….

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 25 May 2012 at 8:32 am #

      its the fuckin’ genes
      i am the sexiest veggie dad of the hottest twins OF ALL TIME
      anyway what was i sayin’…..

  50. avatar
    Once | 25 May 2012 at 8:43 am #

    Veggie is better. I am a former meat lover. I never even think of it now. That texture, that dead being, I don’t want to be part of it. How many kinds of meat? Beef, pork, poultry, fish. How many veggies, legumes, grains? Too many to mention. Very busy being creative and loving food without cruelty…SO many briliant ways to cook…I do admit that I am still stuck with dairy…CHEESE!!!…but I will get there…one day at a time…

  51. avatar
    Morrissey on Crack! | 25 May 2012 at 10:11 am #

    For a wild animal, to be killed and eaten is natural; for a farm animal, to be slaughtered by humans might be a privilege.

    As to the quality of life of farm animals, we might compare the relatively stress-free existence of a dairy or beef herd in the field with, say, that of fellow-ruminants the wildebeest browsing the plains of the Serengeti. The former will be well-fed, watered and sheltered from harsh weather; they will also have access to veterinary treatment. The latter will live under constant threat of attack from predators and suffer the hardships of pestilence or drought. The natural death of a wildebeest is invariably savage.

    ‘Now, the most conspicuous features of animal organization are those which are designed (if they are designed) for competition with other living creatures, and often for their destruction, All animals live by eating other animals or plants. They may kill them, as we kill rabbits and potatoes, or merely eat parts of them, as we eat parts of the apple tree and the flea drinks part of us. A few, such as the blowflies, beetles, and ‘worms’, actually mostly insect larvae, which eat our bodies if they get the chance, eat only dead food, apart from bacteria. And these exceptional pacifists are not the noblest of animals. The plants generally compete by pushing, rather than biting. Look at a plantain spreading its leaves over the grass of your lawn, or a tree cutting off the sun from the plants below it till they die. Though only a few higher plants, like the sundew and the mistletoe, actually eat other living things, they are all engaged in a merciless struggle for life. What about the Venus Flytrap? This plant would not survive if it did not eat another living creature.

    We might conclude that the only way to put an end, once and for all, to Nature’s cruelty to animals as expressed in the behavior of other animals, would be to kill the lot of them and have done with it. Such a mass cull, according to vegans, would be ‘murder’, yet for as long as there is life on earth, life will destroy other life. Why animals, who are apparently deprived of ‘rights’, have the right in the wild to survive at the expense of other creatures, when we do not, is a mystery. We are animals too…

    Vegetarians and vegans, along with the rest must draw the line somewhere when deciding which fellow-creatures are worthy of protection. Most of us would not eat another human being or a chimpanzee unless our own lives depended on it and the ape in question was already dead. (Even then some of us would probably hesitate before munching on Dame Barbara Cartland.) But at which point along the size/intelligence/cuddliness spectrum does the snuffing out of a precious life become the extermination of a bug?

    There is a popular misconception that mankind no longer has natural predators; in fact there are thousands of microscopic creatures that will make their living at our expense if our immune systems permit them. Should we disable our cruel antibody mechanisms to protect the welfare and rights of the invaders? (There are, of course, viral invaders that will happily do the job for us.) Vegans read the small print on food packaging so as not to inadvertently consume microbes, but we must wonder how they feel about dealing effectively with bodily infestations of parasites or with killer diseases resulting from bacterial or viral infection. A doctor who was also a vegan would face a moral dilemma with every patient presenting.

    Again, everybody, from the cannibal to the fructarian (who eats only fruit, as it does not involve the killing of plants), draws the line somewhere. But establishing criteria for drawing that line is usually an arbitrary or irrational decision. Many vegetarians claim they would never kill anything with a face . But take the canine ear-mite. Vegans and vegetarians keep dogs, of which the lucky ones might be given meat for their dinner. Yet vegan dogs suffer ear-mites and under the microscope, it is readily apparent that ear-mites, rather than being amorphous specks of protoplasm, have, in fact, faces with an impressive set of recognizable features. A vegan veterinarian would also flinch in horror when gazing into their cute little eyes. Any attempts to rescue these cankerous cousins for the ear-mite sanctuary would inevitably be thwarted once the question arose of how we should go about feeding them.

    It may be nothing more than size-ism that pressure groups are formed for saving the whale but never the ear-mite. Dr. Lister, director general of the Wildlife Trust has complained that ‘ we get lots of sponsorship for otters and red squirrels, but none for the narrow-headed ant’ . The smallpox virus, meanwhile, has been hounded to extinction (apart from a few test-tube samples) yet no animal rights protester has so much as drawn up a petition. But not even size-ism can explain our above-stated affection for squirrels, given people’s loathing of rats. If you took one dead rat and one dead squirrel and shaved the pair of them, only an expert eye could tell them apart.Perhaps we feel an affinity with animals which most closely resemble ourselves. A creature’s sentience, or rather, its apparent sentience deduced from its neurological complexity might also influence our calculations. Whatever. We have no reliable index for gauging the awareness or suffering of species other than our own so, ultimately, we base our attitudes towards animals on empathic or emotional responses. (This not to say that we shouldn’t save the whale, of course, nor indeed the smallpox virus for future generations to enjoy.)

    But I digress. It is not my intention to explain our irrational biases towards certain classes of animal, but to argue that the killing of animals for food does not alter their natural fate, which is to be killed for food. Whilst alive, the chances are the farm animal’s quality of existence will be at least on a par with a life in the wild. We may feel that the rest of the animal kingdom would benefit were the human race to turn vegetarian tomorrow, but we must honestly doubt that they would be better off. Rather the contrary: humans may be nasty but Nature – red in tooth and claw , as Tennyson so memorably put it – is nastier, and no amount of empathy or sentiment will change that.

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 25 May 2012 at 5:07 pm #

      so what are you attempting to justify with this rather well written little blurb?
      go to the slaughterhouse and watch the cows getting their brains blown out and their throats slit
      and then compare that to the little mites in a dogs ear!
      your argument is mere sophistry
      you are a very clever meat eater
      big deal
      think with your heart for a change
      yeah carrots shudder when eaten (they say it can be measured electronically )
      and bacteria and blah blah die when we bathe
      now go to the houses of death n watch them lambs n piggies n calves die mate
      and tell me
      enjoy your meat my friend!

      • avatar
        thetimebeing | 25 May 2012 at 6:23 pm #

        what would YOU rather…
        to be put in a concentration camp where they fed you
        or be outside taking your chances in a forest or plain ……
        i know which i’d take

        • avatar
          thetimebeing | 25 May 2012 at 6:25 pm #

          and we dont kill potatoes……
          we put em on couches

          • avatar
            Anonymous | 26 May 2012 at 7:30 am #

            when fried or stuffed. (go free pretty animals…)

      • avatar
        Stewart | 25 May 2012 at 8:23 pm #

        @ Morrissey on Crack – I don’t want to hijack this site, which is a blog rather than a forum. If you’re interested, I’d be happy to communicate with you via email about the reasoning behind my decision to become vegan. I was a committed carnivore. I had arguments against veganism based upon a number of grounds, including some referring to indigenous cultures, omnivore behaviour in primates, and the ‘morality’ of the ecosystem (similar to some of your comments) and carnivorous animals. (I don’t recall attempting to argue ‘they were going to die anyway’, or that it’s ethical to breed animals for captivity and slaughter because it’s a jungle out there, but would be happy to address such propositions if they were maintained in genuine discussion.)
        I even considered vegans to be species-centric in apparently holding themselves as above the ‘circle of life’. I’m glad to have had the opportunity to work through my arguments, arriving at a counter-argument to each.
        I prefer to consider myself committed to truth rather than an agenda and considered my anti-vegan views to be genuine at the time that I held them. I now wonder whether some degree of rationalisation was involved. Ultimately: I am not living as a hunter-gatherer; we may label a primate who, after eating flesh, continued to kill rather than avail himself or herself of an abundant vegetable food supply; this ecosystem also includes herbivores; and I am not a lion. The necessity of carnivorous consumption by some animals and plants has negligible relevance to my life. I would have to walk past an ample supply of fruit and vegetables to get to meat in my local supermarkets. Speculation about how I would react in a genuine survival situation does not justify even the smallest contribution to suffering that is simply unnecessary.
        I think SK’s comment, “think with your heart” is spot on. I suggest that there is a benefit in any person first questioning whether she or he genuinely holds ethical behaviour above immediate convenience or personal gratification. If the answer is no, the person will have a clearer understanding of herself or himself. If the answer is yes, the person can be alert to the subtle infiltration of rationalisation in his or her reasoning and thereby strive to avoid it. If such a person was in the process of evaluating the ethics of her or his consumption and financial support of industries that profit from using animals as mere materials, he or she may err on the side of caution and abstain from consuming animal products while the evaluation is conducted.
        I didn’t want to hijack this site and apologise if I am perceived as having done so.

        • avatar
          thetimebeing | 25 May 2012 at 8:27 pm #

          i like the way you think
          this is no hi-jack
          you have made many very relevant points here!
          long may the debate rage!

    • avatar
      Anonymous | 26 May 2012 at 7:26 am #

      you’re wrong – humans are not designed to eat meat – we are herbivores by biology.

    • avatar
      Cocoamo | 26 May 2012 at 8:21 am #

      There always has to be the intellectually righteous who feels the necessity to straighten out us sappy bleeding hearts who don’t eat meat because we love animals. But look a little deeper.

      First, there is the preposterous notion that in order for a vegan to have a leg to stand on, he must be totally pure – no killing ear mites or bacteria for that matter. If anyone claims he is pure in any respect – totally honest, totally compassionate, or totally logical, he is a liar. Take me, 98% vegan and 2% hypocrite, and think I’m doing pretty well, thank you very much. If you were locking your child in a closet and burning her with cigarettes, would I not be allowed to object because I smacked my child on the butt one time?

      Most people agree that killing in self defense can be morally defended. If you and your family were attacked by a mugger, a grizzly bear, or rabid raccoon, you would be right to defend yourself; whether the attacker was human or animal would be irrelevant. So it follows that killing parasites or bacteria have nothing to do with the argument.

      Then there is the dog in the boat mentality – taking the argument to absurd extremes. Once, and animal rights friend of mine, a slim young lady, was being interviewed on the radio by a 350-pound interrogator. “What would you do if you and I and a dog were in a lifeboat, it was sitting too deep in the water, and someone had to go overboard to save the others?” She didn’t answer this, but I would have said, “Well if the dog were a yorkie, it wouldn’t make much sense to throw the yorkie over, would it?” In real life, it depends on the circumstances.

      The basis argument that farm animals are treated humanely is, unfortunately, incorrect.

      If you can suffer another analogy…there is the story about the man who held open a door so a woman could enter. She said, “thank you, but I hope you don’t think I’m a helpless lady who couldn’t have opened it myself.” He replies, “I don’t know whether you are a lady or not. I opened the door for you because I am a gentleman”.

      And that is my argument. Not only do we not need to eat meat, we would be healthier and the environment would benefit if we ate a vegan diet (even 98% vegan or 90% or 80%). The real reason we, as a species, eat meat is just for entertainment purposes – we like it, habit, culture, tradition, and convenience (or for sport as in the case of hunting where one person competes with another for the biggest deer, etc).

  52. avatar
    Brien Comerford | 25 May 2012 at 10:17 am #

    Vegans and vegetarians save the lives of 56 animals a year and they also save an acre of trees every year. Steven John Kilbey has been vegetarian since 1972. That means he’s saved the lives of 2400 animals and 40 acres of trees.

    • avatar
      Anonymous | 26 May 2012 at 7:46 am #

      and thousands of cubic feet of carbon monoxide and other deadlies and thousands of gallons of polluted water and toxic soils and all the other things too (health costs of clogged arteries and diabetes and cancer and the like)…that the rest of us have to suffer along with for every burger/steak/chicken/fish meal the rest eat. (I hate this subject – I start sounding like a real prig, but it’s the truth)

  53. avatar
    Chris | 25 May 2012 at 10:26 am #

    Steve, I was thinking about your ‘nutty nutshell’ comment, and I happened to read this last night: ‘Those who pursue a deep and abiding encounter with God often experience a kind of neurosis. Its symptoms can include sickness, ecstasy, madness, intuition, speechlessness. With a full realisation of God’s claim upon us comes a tearing apart of whatever identity I had constructed for myself, a jarring dislocation of the systems of meaning by which I gain control of my world. The paradox that my awareness of God makes the world new and deeply connecting but makes me strange to myself….this is God. Top adapt Euripides: Whom God wills to save, he first drives mad. With this deep connectedness to God and the world can come a universal vision of the tragic disorder of things as well as of the utter beauty of things – again, a paradox. There comes a unique awareness of the tragic, the senseless, the irremediable, but also the beautiful, the noble, the spirit-filled, the ecstatic. The locus moves from ourselves to outside of ourselves, and tyo abroader vision of the nature of things. The awareness that things are disordered, and that our own thinking can be disordered, keeps us alert, suspicious of easy certainties. Ultimately, we come to the conclusion that the only hope worth having is one that emerges from the doomed frailty of every human hope; that the only human story worth having is one pieced back together from the muddled and painful litter of experience.’ I believe that your poetry is ‘shot through’ with this kind of awareness and divine struggle.

  54. avatar
    colette | 25 May 2012 at 11:22 am #

    Gisela Prueschoff writes some interesting ideas about the development of teenage girls and horse riding in her book ‘Raising Girls’ (all silliness aside). Has to do with confidence, trust and communication. Maybe more teenage boys should be encouraged to do it.

  55. avatar
    colette | 25 May 2012 at 11:34 am #

    I long for unselfconsciousness at times. Obsessing about food makes me mentally and physically anxious, lowers my appetite and makes me thinner than I should be.Can also have the reverse effect. I’ve been surrounded by people obsessed with food for a long time, maybe it’s used for comfort by some, maybe perceived competition for food in a big family is a problem, maybe men see some things differently to women (eg, I can’t eat the huge servings of a bloke and I have been surrounded by blokes for a long time). Taken me a long time to sort out my own needs in this regard and get to a stage where I felt happy with intake, energy levels etc. Until nowish. So at the moment food is giving me the shits or not depending how you look at it. In balanced mode, I try to view food as a necessity with the odd want thrown in, otherwise I don’t want to think about it that much. And I do know about nutrition and I keep it in mind rather than beating myself up about it. Now I need more chamomile tea, hopefully nothing stronger.

  56. avatar
    Chris | 25 May 2012 at 4:03 pm #

    You are Dante to our Inferno…hey…are you a fan of King Crimson, Steve? Always though ‘Court of the Crimson King’ was psychadelic genius.

  57. avatar
    CAth Meeson | 25 May 2012 at 4:27 pm #

    Wow Steve. Like boom!
    I admire your courage.
    I think it;’s easier for the men,
    your power has never been questioned.
    you never seem to manifest doubts
    for us, it is a little different.

    Hugs x

  58. avatar
    Anonymous | 25 May 2012 at 7:10 pm #

    Free will? That’s ok then. I’m sure the mothers of raped children are comforted by such abstract concepts.

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 25 May 2012 at 8:28 pm #

      what would you have me say?
      what do you say to the mothers of raped children?

      • avatar
        Anonymous | 25 May 2012 at 10:10 pm #

        True, Steven. I’m sorry.

        • avatar
          thetimebeing | 25 May 2012 at 11:39 pm #

          its frustrating tho i admit
          why does he let it happen?
          we all ask that from time to time
          but you either got free will or you dont
          and free will means that some people will use that free will to perpetrate terrible rancid crimes
          like raping children….
          as a father of five nothing makes me more furiously outraged!
          i just dont know…
          i wish i did
          i wish i could take away all the pain in this world
          i wish we had enough decency to live and let live
          i wish….

          • avatar
            DavidP | 26 May 2012 at 12:38 am #

            I think each moment we are either in an egoic state
            or we are in awareness with our spark of divine consciousness active which contains true love & intelligence
            the ego states (many of our thoughts, low emotions, impulses, desires and drives, the 7 deadlies) when they manifest they feed on our psychic energy and grow
            suppressing and trapping the consciousness
            over the course of many lifetimes they get stronger
            and stronger, and more and more degenerate
            you could argue someone with strong egos doesn’t have true freedom, they are locked into the program of the egos
            but before the egos got so strong the choices were made to indulge them and from there it snow balls
            to awaken we need to clean our psyche of egos
            to free up the trapped consciousness
            and then we become more and more in line with divine will instead of the will of the egos which have their roots in the different levels of the abyss which Dante was shown
            the kingdom of heaven is within, that spark which can grow
            so is the kingdom of hell within, unless we get rid of the egos
            bit hard to try and summarise all of what I mean on here
            and probably not every one wants to hear it anyway I know

          • avatar
            thetimebeing | 26 May 2012 at 1:14 am #

            david you speak the truth
            and your humility and lack of ego inspire me

    • avatar
      Steven Krut | 26 May 2012 at 7:02 am #

      If truly awful things never happened, there would be no good things happening either. How would you know something was good if there was nothing bad to contrast against. It’s the nature of reality that in order for anything to exist, its binary opposite must exist as well.

  59. avatar
    Chris | 25 May 2012 at 8:42 pm #

    @Anonynmous…a classic argument…’How can a loving God allow cancer in children etc. etc.’ Blame a ‘non-existent God’ which often absolves us from doing ahything about raped children ourselves. Have you set up a charity for raped children? Do you give 10 per cent of your income to relieve the suffering of raped children? Sadly, it is often only humble servants of the God of Love who give up the comfort of the West to go and live in Africa and live alongside the raped children and help them heal, and live alongside the rapists and help them to change their worldview…as hundreds of my ‘God pals’ have done…pax.

    • avatar
      narelle | 26 May 2012 at 1:31 am #

      no need to pack up and move house to make a difference
      what we can do for the developing world, is this…simple…give them our cash…share what we have…how easy is that!!!
      e.g. 90% of blind people live in the developing world, and in 4 out of 5 cases, their condition is treatable or preventable….with children especially so that their development doesn’t suffer
      so, $25 will restore the sight of one person (The Fred Hollows Foundation)

  60. avatar
    colette | 26 May 2012 at 2:24 am #

    Only God knows how good or not good people have been/are. I imagine him smiling away to himself up there at us with all our verbosity which might elucidate a little but is also a great veneer. Ultimately, your relationship is with him (or her or it whatever God is) and cannot be explained or justified to others, probably even within our ‘justice’ system. Yes, it is in your heart and or soul and only God truly knows it. If you don’t believe in God maybe it’s between you and your superego or something of that ilk.

  61. avatar
    Steven Krut | 26 May 2012 at 7:23 am #

    Isn’t it really the wholesale slaughter of animals on an industrial scale – the commoditization of living beings, the robotic, systematic infliction of death – where the evil lies and not with the consumption of meat in and of itself? After all, much of the natural world is predicated upon one species consuming another and humans by nature are omnivores. Before agriculture was developed 10,000 years ago, meat was virtually all humans ate. Now it’s evil to consume it? That seems rather extreme to me.

    • avatar
      thetimebeing | 26 May 2012 at 8:19 am #

      take your pic. its not only evil…its very unhealthy

      • avatar
        andy | 26 May 2012 at 9:14 am #

        er.. look,
        can i say something VERY obvious….
        just cut the claptrap and endless postulations.
        be honest with yourselves and others.
        it’s this simple,
        we are not nice.
        thats it..just admit it, wer’e quite happy to cage, maim and hack-up
        defenceless creatures ‘coz they taste good.
        whats the point of banging on about what was ok 10.000 years ago?
        or fukin’ earmites fer christ’s sake!
        we have a choice not afforded our ancestors…meat is no longer a necessity…..mmmm,bacon! fried pig’s ass that smells good don’t it?
        and that’s what it’s all about….it’s lust! you just can’t resist it!
        spiritually we haven’t evolved one tiny bit in thousands of years.
        if it wasn’t for our art and our music we’ed be nothing more than a virus, a pestillence on the face of this planet.
        fuck that!
        no future at all,
        we have to strive to be something more…ultimately our very survival
        depends on this on so many levels.
        so stop trying to justify the meat industry with purile excuses.
        it doesen’t kill anyone to lay off the stuff.
        stevo…i’ll argue with you on one or two of your ideas(drugs ARE dangerous man..and you should know that better than most.)but i’m with you 100% on this one.
        everyone who has a viable alternative available and still eats meat
        instead needs to think very deeply about their place in the scheme of things.
        empathy, compassion, love, understanding and sacrifice….these things are key to being.
        we can try, can’t we?
        everyone have a brilliant weekend!
        much love to all,

      • avatar
        Steven Krut | 26 May 2012 at 2:01 pm #

        I could never give up seafood. I grew up by the Chesapeake Bay. Crabs and shellfish dance each evening through my culinary dreams. I have given up anything that comes from a meat processor, though. No beef, no pork, no chicken. I do eat an occasional turkey and I once ate a frog. I’m beyond salvation, I suppose.

  62. avatar
    huckbuck | 26 May 2012 at 7:35 am #

    now, this can’t be bad (to the poster that slapped my hand for putting all in one pot, I forgot to qualify and I apologize):

    (but the feathers on that headdress kinda disturbs me; otherwise a stunning pic and the whole album is lovely – this one’s my fave)

  63. avatar
    Once | 26 May 2012 at 8:26 am #

    You’ve been in many of my dreams lately SK…not in a looney sense, just as a nebulous overlord. I know that you’re right, and I know that – at least on this topic – I too am right. Stop consuming fear, pain and suffering – and stop feeling that way. As we say in America – WORD.

    As for God “letting” bad things happen – this is a common question, and I’ve asked it myself (and still do) many times…my conclusion (which, as John Lydon would say, could be wrong or could be right)is that God lets us be human. We’ve got to do that first, and see the error, before we can progress as a species.

  64. avatar
    Once | 26 May 2012 at 8:29 am #

    The real sin is not taking corrective action.

  65. avatar
    colette | 26 May 2012 at 8:59 am #

    Mission for today: extract gnashing canines

  66. avatar
    Once | 28 May 2012 at 10:00 am #

    Well, I know that this is essentially a music and art blog – but, keeping on topic with the previous sentiments – give this a try, omnivores. Oh, and if you do not like soy substitutes (a lot of people don’t, that’s cool), sub 2 cans of canned white beans (drained and rinsed) for the Morningstar. You will LOVE this!

    You will need:

    1 tablespoon olive oil
    1 small onion, or ½ large one
    2 stalks celery
    1 large carrot
    1 package (8 oz.) button mushrooms, thinly sliced (1/8-inch)
    1 tablespoon minced garlic
    1 package (12 oz.) Morningstar Farms Grillers Crumbles
    2/3 C. decent red wine
    1 teaspoon Montreal Steak Seasoning
    ½ teaspoon Ms. Dash Garlic/Herb Seasoning
    1 tablespoon worcestershire
    ½ C. skim or 1% milk (or soy/rice milk, if vegan)
    1 (28 oz.) can whole peeled tomatoes
    1 C. frozen peas

    Heat olive oil in a large saucepan.

    Chop onion, carrot and celery in ¼-inch dice. Saute in oil until onions are translucent. Add mushrooms and garlic. Saute until mushrooms have absorbed most of their liquid. Add crumbles, and stir still thawed. Add wine, seasonings, and worcestershire. Saute till wine evaporates. Add milk, and sauté till milk evaporates. Crush tomatoes by hand and add to pan with juices. Bring to a simmer, and add peas.

    Return to simmer, reduce heat to low and cover. Simmer gently for 90 minutes, stirring occasionally.

    Serve over whole grain thin spaghetti.


    Always heat oil before adding ingredients to pan. Reason – added ingredients will automatically reduce the temperature in the pan – thus, the oil must be hot first. Not smoking – just less viscous.

    Wait to add garlic until there is moisture in the pan. Reason – if garlic hits a dry pan or hot oil, it will “brown”, and become bitter.

    Worcestershire is not vegan – it contains anchovies. However, I always have it on hand. Reason – it is magic!! I have heard tell of vegan versions out there, though, so use your own discretion.

    Always use wine that is “drinkable”. Reason – the flavor of the wine intensifies when it is reduced. The alcohol cooks off, though, and is at 0% upon completion. No worries.

    Always use whole tomatoes and crush them yourself. Reason – diced tomatoes contain more preservatives and salt, and lose their “tomato” taste when cut up. Besides, crushing them is enormously satisfying.

    Always use whole grain pasta. Reason – it tastes much better! Really! It also has more protein and fiber. Just be sure to cook it slightly past al dente for proper texture.

    I can pretty much guarantee that you will love this sauce, and kids will not know the difference. However, karma will. Give it a try!!

    I now return you to muso bizness as usual…


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