posted on June 16, 2007 at 9:26 pm

eat what you like fiendss
ive led the donkeys to water
but i cant make em drink
the things i first said in 1972
when i became vegetarian
are coming true
people are now seriously considering animal rights
in 1972 people laughed scorned and ridiculed me
for such ideas
i realise
as i realised then
with any great upheaval in the human race
when we move on
and leave our ignorance behind
and move forward
towards a goal of peace prosperity and progress
we will have to leave behind things like
female circumcision
slaughter of beasts
deeds that are perpetrated on weak or silent creatures
deeds that generate blood and shame and horror
i have found meat eaters grasping at the most ridiculous rationales
to justify what they know in that part of them
where god lives
in there
they know the real horror of what they consume
or are as yet
so thick
so unthawed by love and life
to remain impervious to the true horror of meat
and the way it boomerangs back on us
the killers become the killed
the pro meat comments here
are hardly worth my time demolishing
the proofs in the pudding baby
im fifty 2 and i can outrun outswim out play
out party and out anything else
most of ya who eat meat
whatever yer age
i churn out art n music
decent art n music
i raise my kids to be veg n theyre strapping n smart
their features are fine and beautiful
and their hearts are not weighed down with meat
i drive vans n cars for a thousand miles
i still jump out and rock n scream for 2 hours
i go to bed at 3
i jump out at 7 and do yoga for an hour
i say what the fucks happening
and i start all over again
my hair although its getting wispy
has hardly any grey
i never get sick
i defeated heroin baby n lived to tell the tale
and please baybee
dont tell me cos i was a junkie
that i aint got no right to preach anti meat
i laugh at your feeble protestations for meateating
your guilt pushes you to absurd limits
i invite all unrepentent meat eaters to depart
dont clogg up my comments with your silliness
im a veg till the day i die
and please
oh the homeless…..
what have the homeless got to do with vegetarianism again?
always meat eaters who come up with the “thickest” things
and thats no wonder really
so why write it?
you aint never gone a change me
i would no more eat meat than eat dirt
actually i know what i prefer
ive heard it all before
this is my blogge
i dont wanna hear about microscopic organisms in the air
or carrots screaming
or the homeless
or ants you trod on
or my ex junkydom
or the lions n cheetahs
or the farmers
or how tired you felt
when you stopped with the pork for a week
adolf hitla
how chicken is alright
how you need the iron
baby i heard it all
a hundred years ago
if you wanna eat meat go ahead
please dont sully my pages with your nonsense
any of ya
with whatever connection you think you have to me
respect this
no i do not respect your right to eat meat
and i dont wanna hear about it
it depresses me
it fatigues me
it brings me down
i am connected to all life
and the slaughter is horrifying me
i cant understand what kind of unfeeling person
can go on with it as it is
and i sure dont want them airing their views here
no more do i want people advocating war n rape n pillage
thats it
you never gonna cower me
i dont respond to come on killer chill out
tell us about fucking heyday
no more meat killer
youre boring us….
sorry pal
its gotta be perfectly clear
if you eating meat
you never really gonna be my friend

164 Responses to “killer wail”

  1. avatar
    steve kilbey | 16 June 2007 at 10:30 pm #


  2. avatar
    eek | 16 June 2007 at 10:36 pm #

    That wanker steve kilbey is the first commmenter again!! What a showoff!


  3. avatar
    Anonymous | 16 June 2007 at 10:40 pm #

    It is getting a bit scary commenting on here, I’ll just say “hi” and “bye” for now.

  4. avatar
    Anonymous | 16 June 2007 at 11:26 pm #

    Now some of you recently converted are going to have to ask yourselves if you did it just to impress the Killer….becuase thats the way it reads.

  5. avatar
    BLUE HIGHWAY | 16 June 2007 at 11:43 pm #

    now that me third eye has been opened, me have been not eating meat, but me wood like to learn more from me master himself…
    Jonny Moondog

  6. avatar
    eek | 16 June 2007 at 11:43 pm #

    anon at 9:26 — does it matter why? If someone becomes a doctor and develops a procedure that doubles the success rate of say, kidney transplants, does it matter if that person only went into medicine because his/her mother wanted it? Does that make the good done less good?

    I seriously doubt the people here who have cut meat out of their diets recently have done so soley to impress Steve. His comments/arguments on the issue may well have been what tipped the scales from “I should do that” to actually doing it, but perhaps you should ask yourself if you would be as contemptuous if someone said “I’m working on kicking my heroin addiction because of some of your posts, Steve.”

    I don’t see why making positive changes should be considered a bad thing, no matter what the impetus for those changes is.

  7. avatar
    Anonymous | 16 June 2007 at 11:48 pm #

    Steve you may need to qualify what you are saying here because you quite obviously have friends and family who are not vegetarian or vegan. If you are suggesting that you reject all meat eaters out of hand then it’s plainly not true. You have the right to your convictions and choices, but advocating zealotry (and your comparisons to rape, slavery and war crimes) are ill advised. They are simply not the same. Speak to a Jew who survived the camps, speak to someone who ran from the debris as the WTC collapsed only 6 years ago, speak to someone who lived through torture and genocide in any one of a number of areas – Bosnia, Rwanda or Darfur.

    Eating a ham sandwich is not the same. This sort of comparison displays wanton flippancy that does not serve either your cause or your intellect well.

    Say what you like and eat what you like, but in your enthusiasm for your rationale do not trot out a roll call of human evils to other humans as a comparison.

    It’s NOT the same.


  8. avatar
    Anonymous | 16 June 2007 at 11:48 pm #

    Eek, you should get out more.

  9. avatar
    steve kilbey | 17 June 2007 at 12:14 am #

    another classic meat eating loophole
    no i aint talked to anyone from rwanda
    have you?
    the concentration camps
    yes they are tragedies
    sos the meat industry
    but youre still eating it, aint ya?
    im not!

  10. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 12:16 am #

    You pointedly miss the point SK – a butcher shop is NOT the same as a gas chamber. No rationale in the world is going to make it so.


  11. avatar
    steve kilbey | 17 June 2007 at 12:19 am #

    one horror allows the other
    as i said youre still eating meat tho
    and i aint
    thats not a rationale
    thats love in action
    i aint saying the concentration camps werent horrific
    they were
    i hate all fucking camps
    for humans yes
    and for animals!
    you know that
    what you arguing for

  12. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 12:35 am #

    You love the argument, you never tire of it, such is the strength of your conviction. I’m not arguing your right to to say, be and live as you choose in regard to your food. I’m arguing that your comparisons are ill advised.


    You are reacting emotionally and not logically. I don’t doubt that you feel passionately about this but don’t bugger your argument by putting this stuff forward. You do your cause a disservice. It’s about not being cruel to animals, right? It about the barbarism of the meat industry, right? You are well informed enough to pull enough facts out of your ass about this to fill a million blogs.


  13. avatar
    the SENseLEss HAppY | 17 June 2007 at 12:37 am #

    wow!… i need to visit here more often!….i believe, sk, that you have hit a nerve amongst the bloggers here….but, i think, i will choose to simply observe this one….good day to all!

  14. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 12:51 am #

    t v….or whoever you are…….the corrolation between the camps,and rwanda,slavery and rape and murdering beasts for consumption,when none of these thinngs are necessary IS……they are all an incomprehensible lack o respect for life……it is a shame that that in an informed and accessible culture,this is not common philosophy….genx

  15. avatar
    Tim | 17 June 2007 at 12:52 am #

    I converted to veg to impress Pam Anderson!

  16. avatar
    tim | 17 June 2007 at 12:56 am #

    rim shot

  17. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 1:02 am #

    The FACT is, that in an informed and accessible culture like this, it is NOT a common philosophy because there IS a difference.

    I’ve not at any time said or inferred that vegetarians don’t have a point, but this need to compare meat eating with every imaginable horror or tragedy and to put them on the same level does not make sense. It’s turns your argument into zealotry is all I’m saying, and there is no place for zealotry in intelligent, informed and progress-seeking discourse.


  18. avatar
    verdelay | 17 June 2007 at 1:03 am #

    Tofu’s company

    TVP’s a crowd

  19. avatar
    kat | 17 June 2007 at 1:15 am #


    i feel bad. i do eat some chicken, tho not very often. don’t hate me! otherwise, i can become a veggie kat. just need some (cheap) good recipes, as i don’t have the money.

    thanks for reminding me about the guacamole. just got some!!!
    i feel a huge buzz coming on for later… 🙂

  20. avatar
    Vegan | 17 June 2007 at 1:18 am #

    Ever been to an abattoir TV?

    It ain’t pretty and it’s certainly not a holiday.
    Pigs are smarter than the average 3 year-old human. A 3 YEAR-OLD HUMAN.

    They live cramped in dimly lit stalls made of concrete and metal. The sows have very little space to move in and are separated from their young by cold,hard, steel crates. After 3 or 4 weeks her piglets are removed from her into barren stalls. Piglets also have their teeth and tails cut with no pain relief.

    This sow is now impregnated again and this cruel cycle starts again.

    Pigs get no exercise due to their “living” conditions and many of them suffer injuries like weakened muscles and bones,foot injuries, lameness, cuts and abrasions etc. They are intelligent and obviously want to get out of there and often bite the bars of their pens in frustration
    Pigs are kept indoors and usually do not see the sun until they’re taken to be slaughtered.

    What a life! All so YOU can have your bacon. How very KIND of YOU.

  21. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 1:23 am #

    Morning all,

    I suspected there would be another morning blog so I’m here after a bit of a sleep in with my slippers and my cocoa, all set for a lovely little read….and I seem to have walked into the middle of something here.

    Now, I’m not one to give advice (as you all know) but the old fella’s not running for public office here or asking for you to sacrifice your first born for what he believes in. It’s just a blog. There is so much attack and counter attack on here now that we are losing something…the essence of communication. I don’t want to lose that. I like that. Does there have to be a ‘them’ and an ‘us’ on here? Can’t we cultivate something a bit higher and holier than this? Can’t we focus on our similarities rather than our differences?

    Surely there’s one thing we all have in common here. I’m not an idealistic person, I’m more of a gritty realist, but I lament the loss of something that, at it’s best, provided great enjoyment and diversion for a group of like minded individuals.

    My lament may be too late, I fear….



  22. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 1:24 am #

    Yes, I’ve been to a slaughterhouse.


  23. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 1:34 am #

    Fighting on the internet is just like competing in the special olympics. You might win but your still retarded.

  24. avatar
    vegan | 17 June 2007 at 1:35 am #

    All I can say TV, is that you obviously lack intelligence and compassion.

    Eating meat is ruining the environment as well. You obviously don’t care about that either.

    “The human appetite for animal flesh
    is a driving force behind virtually every major category of environmental damage
    now threatening the human future—
    deforestation, erosion, fresh water scarcity, air and water pollution, climate change, biodiversity loss,
    social injustice, the destabilization of communities, and the spread of disease.”
    Editors, World Watch, July/August 2004

    It makes me wonder why you bother reading Steve’s blog at all.

  25. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 1:36 am #

    Fuck off Vegan.

    I thought Kilbey didn’t want to read the pro-meat eaters propaganda, yet he’s obviously reading the comments and even ARGUING with them in his own comments section!!! This is ridiculous. Do us all a favor and stick to the music and painting, leave the preaching to the preachers. Thank you.

  26. avatar
    rick maymi | 17 June 2007 at 1:43 am #

    Ah Steve!!! I haven’t touched meat since the last time this came up in early Feb. now when I see meat, I just see death, suffering, torture, slavery, etc…and it makes me gag and want to hurl my guts out. So, thanks for caring enough to make a point of getting through to me so quickly and effectively…I couldn’t have done it without you!!!



  27. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 1:46 am #

    all i can say TV….is look deeper………….genx

  28. avatar
    damien | 17 June 2007 at 1:53 am #

    If I understand you, Steve, your view is that animal life is as sacred as human life?

    Fair enough.

    If that is the case I can see why you would draw the comparison between a Nazi gas chamber and an abbatoir.

    What I can’t understand is why anyone would feel compelled to debate you on your own comments page about this issue.

  29. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 1:55 am #

    Watch out everyone

    Rickis here.

  30. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 1:55 am #

    P.S. Vegan–

    Double fuck off.

    Why do meat eaters “BOTHER” reading “Steve’s blog”??? Because we like his ability to write, his sense or humor, his incredible music. I still enjoy this blog even though SK gets preachy too often (especially about meat), tells people who support his music they are “straights” if they have real jobs and don’t smoke weed, and waxes on endlessly about his heroin addiction. I put up with this shit because basically I believe SK is otherwise a pretty cool dude and I like reading what he has to say. Somewhere along the line this idea that this blog is an exclusive “club” for SK wanna-be’s, full of yes men ready to agree with and support anything he says,reared its ugly head. If this blog’s comments secion is only welcome to bohemians, vegetarians, and dope smokers, then maybe SK should address this in his next blog and not ask for money from these people. Finally, I noticed how when this blog started SK never addresed comments left. I thought that was pretty cool and wondered if he even read them. Now it’s like a discussion forum instead of a blog. I think the comments section should be done away with and just let SK do his thing. Maybe it will be less controversial and heated if nobody can come back with a snappy counter-argument. And then maybe we can finally get the “Heyday” story long overdue and upstaged by all these political and moral rants.

  31. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 2:03 am #

    I think Steve is a very naughty boy. Come on, Steve… admit it. You’re TV, right?


  32. avatar
    malcolm arkey | 17 June 2007 at 2:32 am #


    Personally, I say let it run. Actually the banter here is not impeding communication – I think it is provoking it.
    Who wants another blog that is completely author-centered and formulaic ?
    Author says “X” and everyone says “I agree” or “whatever”.
    I’m Greek when it comes to these things.
    I love debate with the one proviso that people don’t flame each other.
    This is the same rule most forums have.

    witty as always.

    Anon 11:34am,
    That was an appalling thing to say.

    Steve…(and I guess this means I will be howled down and derided by the mob)
    …I usually appreciate your writing but today I was saddened to read your line

    “…and i sure dont want them airing their views here”.

    …I would be very cautious taking that path, for when you do,
    you take yourself closer to a position that, ultimately, you yourself would despise when witnessed in others.
    In history, here’s how it often goes, step by step:
    1) Wish for a utopian world (good)
    2) Speak of a utopian world (good)
    3) Preach for a utopian world (OK)
    4) Insist those around your change their views (hmmm)
    5) Shut yourself off from those around you when they don’t change their views (not good)
    6) Form a clique with those who only have the same views (bad)
    7) Let this clique’s ideas feedback on themselves and become more hardcore (here we go)
    8) Decide to change other people’s views by force…as they are but fools anyway and deserve to be cannon fodder (Oh dear !!!)

    Political parties, religious groups, tyrants…all been down that path before.

    Not saying that you are anywhere near that last position now !! LOL
    – but caution rather than blind rage is advisable in writing.

    Finally, please don’t forget Voltaire’s words in his ‘Essay on Tolerance’:

    “Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too.”

  33. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 2:34 am #

    Hey, don’t look at me! I live on bread and a small selection of vegetables. Hell, neither fruit nor nuts (anymore) because they’re too beautiful to touch.


  34. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 2:39 am #

    maybe the meat-eaters could try

    richard mchealthy

  35. avatar
    howard stern | 17 June 2007 at 2:40 am #

    ratings are up, wot ?

  36. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 2:44 am #

    this is a profound issue for sk and many of us.
    i believe that meat-eaters simply see animals differently.
    i think they have many lives left to return and ponder this issue.
    good luck to them and the potential relatives they’re consuming.

  37. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 2:52 am #

    Went to c Mark Seymour lassa nite at DY RSL. He’s still got it. Good to hear afew old H & C songs.
    He was supported by Jess McEvoy, think you’ld really like her, promoted her new album, some really good songs. Looked at the stage & thought, ah yes, I can justa picture the urch up on that stage. The crowd would go wilde that’s fer sure.

    That’s sad about the lead singer of Boston, love “more than a feeling”. Sure miss the good olde days when life was a lot simpler and the world was a better place.

    Peace & love,

  38. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 2:57 am #

    anonymous at 11.34…….am thankful that my qualification for the “special olympics” is a physical retardation……i would much prefer to be blind,than,”socially retarded………genx xo

  39. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 2:57 am #

    Methinks there’s a bit more than water in the air these days, nota goode vibe. May the sun shine soon & give out happy vibes.


  40. avatar
    lisasebela | 17 June 2007 at 3:02 am #

    It is all the same. War/camps/rape/meat-eating/destruction…..
    Lack of consciousness. Lack of compassion. A feeling that every living thing was put on this earth for our use and abuse, instead of our guardianship. Expect no mercy from what is above when you show no mercy to what is below (or something like that)

  41. avatar
    Luka | 17 June 2007 at 3:06 am #

    Thanks to those who answered me yesterday.
    I was brought up in a strongly meat-eating society but now I’m also open to questioning that.
    So I’m just looking for answers that actually make sense to me. Anyone’s views on this matter are welcomed.

    Here are some more questions that (admittedly come from my meat-centric childhood.)

    People here said the killing of any animal is wrong…but how come every time I turn on the Discovery Channel I see some animal killing and devouring another animal. Is this wrong, morally ?

    Not only that, but these animals don’t kill their prey in a painless way – they bite and tear and maim and pull bits of these other animals…often these deaths seem to be slow and excrutiatingly painful. I have even seen animals devour their prey while that other animal was alive. Some animals seem to kill their prey not with their teeth but actually with their stomach acid (snakes for example). I don’t know what to think about this.

    Also – someone said yesterday humans are not carnivores. Maybe, but aren’t we “omnivores” ? (anyway that’s what I learnt in school science, be it right or wrong). Does anyone have any evidence to show me that we are, intrinsically by nature, herbivores and not omnivores ?

    A few more dumb questions.
    I have done some travelling in the world and I have seen ancient civilizations farming livestock for meat – I guess they have been doing this since Adam was a boy. For example, goat-herders in Morocco. Haven’t there always been shepherds who tended flocks, not just for milk and wool, but also for meat ? Is this wrong ? I dunno – people were talking about homelessness yesterday – but it’s not just the homeless who who rely on meat to stay alive…a lot of the developing world does.
    Doesn’t it seems a little “western-imperialistic” for you confortably off, middle-class, western educated people to start telling these poor people that what they are doing is wrong ?
    A little self-righteous perhaps ?

    OK – don’t blast me out of the water please – I’m trying to prod some good answers out of you people.


  42. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 3:07 am #

    You mean those good olde days when racism,
    were better?

    THOSE old days?

    Or which old days are YOU referring too?

  43. avatar
    dumb blinkered "straight" | 17 June 2007 at 3:26 am #


    You said today
    “you never really gonna be my friend”.

    Do you really want all of us dumb white-collar, meat-eating straights to piss off and never read this blog or buy your music again ??

    If that’s what you REALLY wish for (and I don’t wish it upon you) then you might be in even worse economic times in the future.

    Why would you say that ?
    Why do you hope that everyone should be like you ?

    Don’t you see that if everyone was like you and thought exactly like you and smoked as much mj as you do we wouldn’t even need to visit this blog or listen to your music because we would just do it ourselves ?

    I thought you actually liked difference in this world.

  44. avatar
    mattdavison | 17 June 2007 at 3:26 am #

    Right!! Sk, why don’t you leave posting a blog for a day or so and we can battle this one out fair and square, done and dust it.

    I will give the readers more insight on my view.

    BTW)-I just realized that half my spelling problem, is i ve got stuck keys on my computer from spilt gin….anyway!!

    I believe vegan-vege lifestlyes are good for all, I believe that at the highest end of humanity we all should embrace the idea..PERIOD

    BUT… this world is far from perfect, and far from the utopia that we so desire in our hearts..
    So here in lies the problem.

    How we explain things to ourselves has quite an influence on how we interact with other people..For examplewe come across someone asking for help, wether we decide to actually step in and help them depends on how we define the situation. If we conclude that the situation is not really serious, and starving helplessness is…Then we are less likely to help the person, then if we define it differently..

    You go to vege / related gigs and other organised events for the cause..and chat all things vege.. While there are huge numbers out there who would really appriciate a warm bowl of that beautiful Dahl that you make at home.. “Far out” how much do lentals cost??

    You see I want to become vegetarian
    But I gotta lot of personal changes to make, long habbits die hard.. I commend the thought processes that equal a vege outcome
    and I believe in it’s truth…However

    I will be at the Salvation army on Christmas day..serving up ham & potatoes tothe thousands… I will think about my own choices when it comes to my diet.

    But!! then I can

    Many cannot

    Some people may feel that although it is a right to curb the feelings of intense hatred which can cause us to to be violent and kill..animals included

    We are perhaps in danger of of loosing our independence when we restrain our emotions and discipline our minds-

    Actually, I believe the opposite

    like their counterparts of love and compassion, anger and the afflictive emotions can never be used up. People who indulge in negitive thoughts and feelings inevitably become accustomed to them..That’s our fuccin planet man

    That’s what we have become..

    If the vege lifestye brings inner-peace Fuccin brilliant

    But, regardless of my choices of eating.. I will help feed the one’s who can’t.

    Dan12 …tks for the support

    We all have moral choices

    SK, you more then most.


  45. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 3:33 am #

    … still friends???

    I think so.



  46. avatar
    steve kilbey | 17 June 2007 at 3:36 am #

    too much tv is badde for ya too
    well heres the heyday story
    you see me and ploogy were in ….
    my nut cutlets are ready

  47. avatar
    anonymitygirl | 17 June 2007 at 3:38 am #


    You said
    “Expect no mercy from what is above when you show no mercy to what is below”

    That sounds like a perfect description of the food chain to me.

    And yes…if you go swimming in the rivers of Kakadu National Park or other parts of NT, WA or Nth Qu. (Australia) you, a human, will be eaten by a saltwater crocodile.
    They, being above us in the food chain, will show you not the slightest trace of compassion when it comes to the crunch.

    Gulp !

  48. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 3:45 am #

    luka, the balance of the eco system{until we as a “Human race”,decided to manipulate it,for profit,or supposed “sophistication”},is reliant on “The food chain” being in balance.The human body does not require meat to survive! with a variety of foods available to us,in towns/townships/country areas/where ever things grow in} you/we,if we chose to do so,could live in extraordinary health,on “non animal” products….Yes lions eat other animals!they are intelligent creatures,as well.BUT,we as humans are blessed with choices……{hey ,if i m hungry,can i eat your cat/dog?} it is choice,of course….

  49. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 3:47 am #


    Is ‘guacamole’ another code word on this blog for ‘jazz’ ??

    Oh god – I’m so slow aren’t I ?

  50. avatar
    lisasebela | 17 June 2007 at 3:56 am #

    Expect no mercy from what is above… is meant in more of a spiritual way. Ya know – us at the top of the food chain and whatever you feel is above us, if you feel anything is above is. God or the sky. Shouldn’t be taken too literally.
    I live in Atlanta, Georgia, USA. I don’t know anything about crocodiles, except that I wouldn’t eat them either. Sounds like Kakadu is a fun place though – Gulp!

  51. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 3:59 am #

    Mucho respect for rolling your own- though perhaps Steve can convince you to quit the ciggies too

    LOVE to you and your gorgeous hair…latin lips….
    kisses, shandy

  52. avatar
    Luka | 17 June 2007 at 4:04 am #

    anon 1:45pm,

    thanks for that answer. i think you are the first vegetarian i’ve heard making any sense…I’m gonna think about it some more.

    in answer: no, you can’t eat my kitty any more than you can steal my girlfriend. i guess all living things defend the things that they love and that are important to them and their future. i guess that’s why some animals defend their young from attack and also defend their perceived ‘territory’.

    i wonder if this whole debate stems from the God vs No-God debate ?
    i mean, i was brought up in a Darwinistic tradition and so i tend to see humans as part of the animal kingdom and very similar to them in behaviour and also i see humans as part of the food chain (like that other commenter said). but i guess if you believe in a god who has made humans different or special, as in the judeao-christian-islamic traditions (ie given them some form of higher intelligence able to make choices) then you will tend to fall towards vegetarianism.

    this is all very interesting for me.

    anon 1:45 – what’s your opinion on those people in the 3rd world who simply need to eat sheep or goats to survive as the arid conditions they live in are too poor to cultivate most vegetables ?? i don’t think anyone should condemn their choices…i think it’s like Buddhism…don’t harm something if you don’t have to…but if you must do it to survive – then do it.

    i’m surprised no one has explained it to me in this way before.


  53. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 4:04 am #

    Mr.Kilbey… are a big tease…and a rapscallion….xxxgenx

  54. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 4:10 am #

    Luka….youre welcome….and i wont eat your pussycat….tell me about your ladyfriend……no only joking{a man tastes much better when doesnt eat meat…..get my drift}……love and respect…..genx xx

  55. avatar
    luka | 17 June 2007 at 4:22 am #

    sorry gen x xx,
    (how many x’s ?)

    i wouldda used your name if I’d known it was you.

    well, people – look at this !!
    a meat-eating guy and a vegetarian lady discussing the issue in perfect civility with mutual respect.
    who’d have thought it was possible ?


  56. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 4:30 am #

    and Luka… to your question on arid countries………it is again,a matter of “us” being blessed with choice….the staple foods of these “peoples”are the basis of a vego diet….quite often,in desert cultures,meat is only eaten in ceremony,as am image of prosperity….animals are currency….hows that!imagine if your life was currency,to a creature with whom you had bondedand given servitude to,in thanks for warnth and food………and they say one day….”mmmmmmm maria s to be married on saturday… ya think the grooms family would be more impressed if we cooked Luka or his lady friend?”…..genx

  57. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 4:35 am #

    Beautiful rainy Sunday.Quite the perfect time for the family to gather for that yummy roast dinner

  58. avatar
    steve kilbey | 17 June 2007 at 4:45 am #

    oh look…a wag!

  59. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 4:50 am #

    Who are you waiting for killah? its like you’re circling your prey.

  60. avatar
    not a musty louse | 17 June 2007 at 4:51 am #

    Vegan @ 11:18

    i think you are saying that the mass-production meat industry is wrong and leads to pain and mistreatment of animals. i agree with that view.

    but having lived on a farm i can tell you not all farmers do things this way. some farmers grow things for themselves or small local markets – they don’t mistreat their animals and they care for them very well – the animals are allowed to roam in paddocks and are given great care and attention. yes – some of those farmers also kill some of their animals one day and eat them. i don’t think this is the same thing as the former meat-factories issue.

  61. avatar
    lisasebela | 17 June 2007 at 4:53 am #

    musty louse
    It is the same to the animals

  62. avatar
    woolfie | 17 June 2007 at 4:58 am #

    This is all quite fiesty? Well written mattdavison. It comes down to a question of survival. Serving a circumstantially challenged person ham on Christmas day is helping them survive. Hell, we let killers off in the name of self defense for that exact reason, an allowance for survival. Sure we could serve them something else, but they are the ones that lack choice. If we give them meat, I’m pretty sure they will eat it.

    We on the other hand are fortunate enough to have choice. I’m with many here… I want to become a vegetarian (if for anything else but to look better naked!) but I lack the conviction. I guess this is my only vice. I don’t smoke, I don’t do heavy narcotics but I do eat meat. Just like a drug user I would say because i like it? I don’t like the slaughterhouses, those killing factories and I do think they are slightly resemblant of a gas chamber? The horror of it all depends on your compasion towards animals, personally I find it hard to sympathise with a cow as much as a human but I have vegetarian friends that very much can. I respect that.

    I also agree SK that animal rights are not too far off. If certain humans force themsleves onto animals sexually, or if the NZ government is seriously looking at potentially taxing their methane enriched farts, then they need rights! (Cracks me up, tax a cows fart for contributing to global warming… who else can we blame!)

    But then I also have nothing against a hunter. Someone with it in them to kill the beast one on one earns the right to be a meat eater in my mind? I actually do believe that eating meat is not overly commendable but I have to live with myself and often find myself justifying my inclination towards steak and bacon.

    Perhaps oneday I will look back Steve and I will be an ex-meatjunky? Fitter and healthier for it and wanting a little tolerance for my past weakness? And TV, believe it or not I do get your point, but this is KILBEYS BLOG! if he has an opinion where better to put it? I hardly think he is one to sit neutral on something he is passionate about? If you want logical debate go to
    done. woolfie.

  63. avatar
    woolfie. | 17 June 2007 at 5:09 am #

    Just re-read my last comment. How much can I sit on the fence… Just to clarify. I like the idea and principles of vegetarians but right now in life I DO EAT MEAT… love it too much. Too weak to quit. Hate me for it if you must.
    done. woolfie.

  64. avatar
    eek | 17 June 2007 at 5:14 am #

    i wonder if this whole debate stems from the God vs No-God debate ?

    No. It doesn’t. Many people who believe in a god use that belief to justify their consumption of meat — “God put animals here for humans use and consumption.” And many people who have no belief in any god whatsoever are vegan animal rights activists.

    A belief in god seems to be able to be used either way — as reason to use anything without compunction; or to look at humans as guardians and caretakers of this world. And being an atheist does not automatically mean one will look at an animal and think “yum! Dinner!” although, certainly some do feel that way.

  65. avatar
    Luka | 17 June 2007 at 5:16 am #

    gen x,

    i think if you travelled to mongolia, and especially to the poorer parts, you would have extreme difficulty as a vegan actually finding anything to eat.

    they eat meat, meat, meat, meat (sheep, goats, even camel !) and more meat (did i mention horse meat ?). when they are not eating meat they eat steamed breads or dumplings filled with…uh…meat…or they have plenty of dairy products (oh no !) including sheep’s milk, goat’s milk, yak’s milk, horses’ milk and yoghurt made from all of the above.

    i guess a vegan could live on the wheat noodles they have (how many weeks could you last ?) – but of course the wheat noodles are usually cooked in a stock made out of…you guessed it…m

    anyway – i guess i’m not making any major point here suffice to say that although you may feel that the whole system is wrong – an individual born into a non-western country – often has little choice and little ability to change these things.

    i think it is a mistake to think that all people in developing countries only eat staple cereal foods…i have often found it to be the opposite.

    voluntary vegetarianism (like “depression”) often seems to be something born of the “developed world”.

    take care,

  66. avatar
    didanother duck becomeaturkey | 17 June 2007 at 5:20 am #

    You can’t comment on yr own blog sk

    It’s one of the rules..

  67. avatar
    thegapbetweenreality | 17 June 2007 at 5:25 am #

    woolfie you
    must look
    like a
    whopper burger!


  68. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 5:26 am #

    i’m not going to enter the meat debate…got news today that a family member who’s very dear to me is dying of massive heart failure due to multiple heart attacks…nothing they can do except make her comfortable and wait for her to die…she’s fighting for her life and not giving in…my five year-old believes that when somebody dies there’s a new star in the sky…i’ll just quietly grieve and you guys can stand on your soap boxes and yell at each other…
    -The Hellbound Heart

  69. avatar
    craig1.618 | 17 June 2007 at 5:32 am #

    i don’t understand what part of “THOU SHALL NOT KILL” people don’t get…..

    perhaps at some point on this planet their were these evil overlord types that disguised themselves as benevolent beings and set in motion a world in which slaughtering was encouraged

    perhaps they fed off the fear that was created by the slaughter……….ya know……..the sheer horror of it all

    and as the years rolled by the practice became ingrained within the societies to the point where most of the masses didn’t question the practice

    *****my little fictional story here reminds me of a clip i saw a few years back where old georgie boy was laughingly telling a vegetarian journalist that she should eat more meat…….hmmm……******

  70. avatar
    dean9000 | 17 June 2007 at 5:37 am #

    I’ve been called worse than a donkey ….not usually on father’s day but there’s a first time for everything….back to my foxhole…

  71. avatar
    dean9000 | 17 June 2007 at 5:41 am #

    ps…just read hellbound’s post…i think that’s an ender folks…your in my prayers brother….

  72. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 5:43 am #

    luka ….i hear what youre saying….not to be “preachy” but again,WE are fortunate enough to have choices….and YES i would have a few big problemos in mongolia….i did think that they had staples of grains and dried herbs etc{including onions etc}which are all high in nutrients….it would be rude of me,of course,to knock back an offer of hospitality,or request a special meal….but then ….it is all about choice..and conditioning….with respect to you,ladyfriend and kitty xxxgenx

  73. avatar
    woolfie | 17 June 2007 at 5:54 am #

    That could single handedly be THE most intelligent, witty takedown I have ever read thegapbetweenreality. I think you could quite possibly be the brightest coloured peanut in the turd!
    done. woolfie.

  74. avatar
    eek | 17 June 2007 at 6:05 am #

    The Hellbound Heart — my mother died a little over three years ago after a close to life long battle with heart failure. You and your relative are in my thoughts

  75. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 6:12 am #

    sending you love and strength,from gen and morgen{my little one}……hellbound heart…you as well have my utmost respect…..xxxxxxxxxooooooooo genx

  76. avatar
    davem | 17 June 2007 at 6:52 am #

    Love to you HH at such a difficult time.
    7.45am on Fathers Day here in blighty. The sun is shining and I’ve just enjoyed my brekkie of tomatoes on toast.
    We all know where you stand SK. This debate surfaces every few months….with the same responses. From a personal point of you I would just thank-you for encouraging me to give up meat. I haven’t found it at all difficult to sustain the refrain….but I do miss the cigarettes even though I packed them up over 2 years ago.
    Love to all,

  77. avatar
    davem | 17 June 2007 at 6:54 am #

    BTW Steve I think your blog titles are just brilliant. Todays especially.

  78. avatar
    kat | 17 June 2007 at 7:07 am #

    i’m stewing about all my other bad habits now.. little debi zebra cakes and sugar and cigs to just name a few?

    sorry to hear your news, hellbound heart.

    god bless,

  79. avatar
    tristan | 17 June 2007 at 7:26 am #

    Mein Gott im Himmel !!!

    What have we here ?!

    To sum up today’s efforts then –
    “Thou mayst open a can of worms,
    But thou shalt not eat the contents.” (Tristan the simple)

    All my love to Isolde,

  80. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 7:28 am #

    The meat discussion would be verging on satire if I hadn’t seen it here for the last…what is it, year or two.

    Satire, I say, because I just saw a skit on SNL where a presidential candidate is running under the neo Nazi reform. Since the former Nazism was/is based on hatred- there’s not much change in the new take, ‘…new nazi’s are really jews: they like meat, money, capitalism, war”.

    Why not capare autracities? Fair enough. OK Steve, I’ll see fast food nation. I’ll try to focus on Greg Keneer- love that guy.

  81. avatar
    skateboard '79 | 17 June 2007 at 7:32 am #

    And now for something COMPLETELY different –
    So, Steve, tell us about those Heyday shirts….

  82. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 7:33 am #


    i hope those cakes don’t have real zebra in them !!

  83. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 7:42 am #


    Happy fathers day this reminds me of the planet of the apes where the ape chases the other up the tree yelling ape killed ape….I’m getting old…. much love

    Steve in Fl

  84. avatar
    vegan | 17 June 2007 at 8:08 am #

    Anons11:36 and 11:55, I ain’t going anywhere.

    Not a Musty Louse,I was talking about factory farms but to me killing any animal IS mistreatment. Eating meat in our civilization is unnecessary, we have such an abundance of food.

    To me eating meat is pure selfishness, greed and gluttony. To expect an animal to die just because you like the taste of their flesh is sinister and disgusting.

    I also think the farm land that you are using could be more of use for crops.

    10 acres (5 football fields) produces:
    * 60 people growing soya
    * 24 people growing wheat
    * 10 people growing maize
    * 2 people groving cattle

  85. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 8:17 am #

    A question – why do all vegetarians/vegans here have to be so smug and evangelical about it?

    Really? Why can they not make their choices and shut up. I’m not talking about Steve having the right to say whatever he wants on this blog so you can put that away for now.

    If you really want to spread the word about it maybe just getting the information out their would make more actual difference. Nearly all the vegos on this blog are either giving themselves a big congratulatory pat on the back all the time or abusing anyone who is not the same as them and dares to say it. Not all vegetarians are like this!

    I think the person at the top was also right. Going off your rocker about vegetarianism and comparing it to rape and war is too extreme. My grandfather was in a concentration camp and you don’t know thw half of what went on in there. I don’t think he would rate his experience as the same as you lot so easily do.

    He is also a vegetarian.

  86. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 8:41 am #


    your propaganda is not going to work.

    it’s supply and demand in farming as in any other business.

    you are not a farmer are you? so don’t act like you know how their business works.

  87. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 8:42 am #

    not surprised that your grandfather is a vegetarian…..he obviously has a great respect for liberty and life

  88. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 8:48 am #

    anon at 6.41….”.nothing is constant but change”

  89. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 9:14 am #

    My grandfather has his own reasons for not eating meat.

    He does not bray about it the way you lot do though! If you didn’t act so superior and put so many off side with your manner you’d do a lot better. It wrecks this blog they way you are all so smug. Not everyone has a thousand arguments and websites to send people to like you do when all you’ve ever done is eat meat because thats how you were brought up.

    Everyone gets definsive when they are attacked.

  90. avatar
    mattdavison | 17 June 2007 at 9:36 am #

    Lv 2 ya HH…

    Woolfie is a great lookin chap mr thegapbetweenreality-

    More like a vege roll (wheatgerm & eggplant) much better then a whopper… and no m**t..


  91. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 9:39 am #

    I´m a meat eater and a fan of your music! If because I eat meat you will never consideer me your friend, what the hell I am doing spending my money in your albums and in your shows???

    We´re no longer teenagers man, I am a grown up man. I buy your stuff but I dont need your NAZI and RACIST point of wiew.

  92. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 10:05 am #

    This is a repeat of previous blogs

    I agree with MP

    TV is SK

    In a previous blog someone SK was with was eating fish

  93. avatar
    Krissythegroupie | 17 June 2007 at 10:05 am #

    HAHA, you are awesome. Blah blah to the naysayers and meateaters! I really look up to ya..

  94. avatar
    persephone2u | 17 June 2007 at 10:06 am #

    Hi Eek. You took the words right out of my mouth with your comment to anon at 9:26. Nice job!

    Someone up above talked about this argument in terms of logic vs. emotion. Well, I’m here to tell you that it is both logically and rationally better to be a vegetarian/vegan. It is a proven fact that those that live the longest in the world are vegans. People are welcome to do their own research on that if they like.

    Yes, you will live longer and be less likely to fall victim to heart problems and various cancers, especially colon cancer, if you don’t eat meat. You will also not be killing innocent animals in a brutal fashion.

    Knowing the above, why would anyone ever want to eat meat?

  95. avatar
    daniel12 | 17 June 2007 at 10:12 am #

    Sheeshh ! What can I ad that didn’t rant here last febuary?.
    Though the meat industrie is clearly indefensible this soapbox blogg debate is an exersice in futility. I think the great tragegy here is that this planets dominant species ended up a fiercly tribal omnivorous ape. At times i’ve wished i was born somthing else but a pig in a cage definently aint on the list. However here i am , human , flawed and full of contradictions. I strive to live by my ethics but my ethics have led me to some difficult quagmires. Certianly if i didn’t engage with the world of meat eaters i wouldn’t be employable. I’d be pretty damm lonley too. Nup writing meat eaters off aint the answer. David Bowie eats meat but Michael Boltons a vegetarian. Sting only eats meat from animals raised on his organic farm. Ethics aside i know who i most like to meet. If i ever get to hang out with Bowie i wont be giving him a vego rant. Insult me all ya like but that’s just the way i am. Fickile perhaps ? Human yes.

    Hey Matt i did it !. Cooked up some organic vegie meals and gave them to the local homeless. I know i’m not pure of intent yet but i felt my hearts armour soften just a litte. It felt good i’ll definently be doing it some more.

  96. avatar
    Altres | 17 June 2007 at 10:15 am #

    I’m a pescetarian, cycling, left-wing, commie-pinko-faggot loving tree hugger, who fucking detests 99% of car owners. I have various reasons for my views and have arrived at them after 40+ years of living.

    I eat fish because I can and have killed fish. I’ve never killed a chicken, a cow, a lamb or a pig. Maybe if my children were starving I would.

    Steve’s views are his own, he’s arrived at them through experience and 100% entitled to them, especially on his own blogg. Why just come here to attack someone on their own blogg? Is it because they have a cock the size of a small whelk and a massive need for attention because even their own parents didn’t actually love them?


  97. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 10:36 am #


    Did we meet as some peace and loving event?

    Wow you have changed man

    Sooooooooo not cool to be cruel

  98. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 10:38 am #

    opps sorry wrong blog

    thought I was on a high school blog

    see ya

  99. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 10:40 am #

    I know how to work out who is pretending to be who – language used – sentence structure

    Be more clever guys.

  100. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 June 2007 at 10:45 am #






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