posted on May 16, 2006 at 8:18 pm

time, gentlemen…

what is this stuff
what is this thing called time
where did all that time go
why it was only yesterday that……

another morning dawns
brings me closer to the things i want
the things i dread
the white days
and the black nights
gnawing away at my time
the fates measuring out my thread
the slender thread that holds me here
the silver cord holding my body to my soul
my soul sits in the seat of the soul
somewhere in my head
in some gland
some tiny gland in my brain
where it interfaces with the mind n body
in its drivers seat
where it runs the show
but my mind forgets so easily
it hates to think its just
hardware and software
being used by an immortal spirit
it thinks it is a law unto itself
it thinks therefore it is (it thinks)
the mind always turbulent
trying to prove this n that
measuring, planning, directing
all in time
my soul sits outside of time
whilst temporarily in time
the mind deafens itself with its carryon
you cant ask the mind to switch itself off
you cant ask the mind for a little peace n quiet
ever since we were born
people saying
youre this
youre that
youre like her
youre not like him
youre steven kilbey
you can do this
you cant do that
time all mixed up in everything
confusing the issue
how do you stop time
how to be in this very moment
its already gone, fiendss
its already gone
opium slows down that time for ya
but you gonna have to pay some other time
and if you keep putting off that payment
the interest is gonna cripple ya
someone said the drugs dont work
i disagree
but one problem
if you use opium to run away from time
everything you were running from
is gonna come back to getcha a hundred, a thousandfold
all those lovely dopedreams
paid for in torturing insomnia
all that lovely detachment
paid for in the worst horrors you can contain
well alcohol dont do it for me
it does for some..
gets em out of time
but its the same deal
its gonna get you eventually
the merry sloshed uninhibited party animal
the hungover headpounding embarrassed wreck
“where am i?….what did i do?”
chemicals n booze
aggravating the hurt
for a little bit of tiny relief
a days freedom for a week in jail
a kiss for a thrashing
a flower for a forest of thorns
we all involved in these bargains
you marry someone
you happy for 40 years
but one day theyre gone
jus’ like that
gone into a place where theres no time
a timeless space
a spaceless place
i dont know
a pause
a hiatus
somewhere you can just be
the people left behind wail
and gnash their teeth
mourn n carry on
where did all our time go
not yet
too soon, too soon
give us more time
another day
another hour
its used up
come in mr kilbey
your time is up…
time with its weedy fingers in the cracks
pulling everything put together apart
all things must pass
cities, empires, human beings
ars longa, vita brevis
nothing here is permanent
we thrash around
we want some permanence
we want some guarantee
everything receding into emptiness
pain, bewilderment…
is this our lot
is there any point to it
is it all just written in the sand?
how the hell would i know fiendss
im just an olde rocker stumbling around
in the beginning of the 21st century
losing people
crying out against the senselessness of it all
writing a blog for those who wanna read
for the believers
for the disbelievers
hello mr garrat
mr john garrett
or jean garrotte
my oh my
you aint gonna be fooled
you rascally olde nihilist
i like you john
i see a lot of myself in ya
i dont wanna be fooled by a load of new age toffee
and spiritual baloney
i aint gonna be taken in by gods n goddesses
and all the rest of that crystalhealing dolphins and
rebirthing pilates soy latte cosmic bullshit
yes john
youve seen thru the whole she bang
thats a comfort too..
“well at least i wasnt taken in….”
yet …
then what..
ok everything got here by accident
the clouds is the clouds
the trees is the trees
there aint no spirits
there aint no god
i aint gonna be fooled
im gonna shut it all out
some people see a sunset
and see god
other people see a sunset
and see a ball of burning gases
we orbit around for some random reason
some people see both
some neither
they dont care
life is too bad
or too good
or too fucking full on
to look at sunsets
i can dig all of it
ive held every position
i been a hard bitten cynic
i been a wide eyed believer
i been a hedonistic hotshot
who didnt give too damns about any of it

so whats the moral
sum it all up for us, kilbey
make yer point
give us the punchline
you bass playing philosophical olde ranter
and dear fiendss
let me say
i struggle with doubt n despondency
what the hell …
look at all the stupid things ive done…
listen to all the stupid things ive done…
in the end tho
in the final analysis here
im gonna opt for god
i cant look at my daughter scarlet
and believe there is not some incredible mind out there
i cant see a flaming red sunset
or a white moon appearing like a hole in the sky
i cant swim in the ocean
or walk thru a forest
without thinking
this didnae come here of its own accord
no more than ultc made itself
no more than starry night painted itself
no more than this computer i type away at
invented itself
fiendss there is more complexity
in a tiny bug
than all the computers in the world
there is more beauty in a single sunset
than all the art galleries in the world
we are creatures
what does that mean?
it implies we were created
by whom and why?
we cant know that yet
its a mystery
but im sorry
it doesnt look like it all just arrived here on its own
all these systems related, inter related
the systems in yer body
the solar system
the bee and the flower
the peaks and the troughs
the mountains and the sky
think hard and long
meditate on these things
stop to look around you
listen to your heart…wow what a cliche
aint that a song by heart?
ok get over that
listen to your heart
my heart is saying this
there is a god
he loves us more than anything
he cant explain everything right here and now
cos thats yer mission (captain)
to unravel it
to work it out for yerself
to observe and calculate
i read somewhere that the odds of life starting
on this planet and all this coming into being
are the same odds that a hurricane blowing thru
a junkyard
will assemble a boeing 707
you wanna go with those odds, john
im sure you gotta smart arse one liner for that too
its ok
we need skepticks
we dont wanna get fooled again
but dont close down your heart
to the possiblity
that there is reason
there is love
all will be revealed one day
when ya get to the last page in the book
they gonna give ya all the answers…
maybe, john
just maybe
i love you anyway
(i guess)
all of ya
its wednesday
do something nice for yerselves
its a brand new day

59 Responses to “seconds,minutes,hours,days, weeks,months,years,decades.centuries”

  1. avatar
    Handyman | 16 May 2006 at 9:47 pm #

    Yes, Yes!!! Now that sums it up just beautifully. Could not agree more and feel a bit enlightened for reading soemthing that mirrors my views.



  2. avatar
    Jack | 16 May 2006 at 9:56 pm #

    Thanks. Beautifully said.

  3. avatar
    the dean | 16 May 2006 at 10:29 pm #

    some of us need proof. isn’t that what the cosmologists are striving for?

  4. avatar
    Anonymous | 16 May 2006 at 10:38 pm #

    you have so much love to give don’t you? that’s beautiful! keep on doing what you’re doing, saying, thinking….not because it’ll all come back to you 10fold but because the world needs it/you.

  5. avatar
    john | 16 May 2006 at 10:44 pm #

    thanks steve. i hope you feel moved enough to keep writing.

    its an odd world indeed and few things are cooler than a guy (and seemingly kindred soul) in your favorite band taking the time to share his thoughts and explorations in such a direct and real way on a daily basis…not to mention putting out over 25 years of great music. 🙂

    – john in austin, texas

    p.s. as side note, i’m curious as to what ‘the dean’ needs ‘proof’ of.

  6. avatar
    Anonymous | 16 May 2006 at 10:47 pm #

    I’m just impressed that you can come up with this stuff at 6.18am!!

    May God bless you and keep you.

  7. avatar
    veleska1970 | 16 May 2006 at 10:49 pm #

    very profound, steve. i can’t think of any other way to say how much appreciation we should all have for all of this universe’s wonders.

  8. avatar
    Anonymous | 16 May 2006 at 10:54 pm #

    ….waiting for the drugs to make it real…..
    We created ourselves mr. Kilbey – did you forget…. and we created the universe/multiverse/omniverse, it`s the playground of the soul – the manifestation of soulenergies longing to solve the puzzle and return HOME..
    Now I know why I`ve been drawn to Church/Kilbey music all these years – a fellow traveller through space, time and illusion… clothing the yearning and the sense of someone being someone in music and words to reflect being in non-being ( ouch! my tooth aches!). Just when I thought I was somebody…..

  9. avatar
    mattdavison | 16 May 2006 at 10:58 pm #

    That is one of my fav’s so far SK.
    (Tempus Fugeut) Time Flys….

    hey (Infinity) wow” now thats a weird concept eh! don’t you know that ULTC blasted out of a speaker will travel through space forever… gives us a “song in space” one of millions for Gods -ipod, and most likely on his popular play list.
    Time is nothing…
    It is everything..
    It is a concept
    a rotation
    a measurement
    a coil..
    a ???
    it is nothing.
    Whatever..only God knows it’s purpose


  10. avatar
    Anonymous | 16 May 2006 at 11:43 pm #

    hi sk
    this afternoon
    i took my daughters
    and their friend
    to the store
    for each get an
    of their choice
    they were so
    carefree and happy
    just the anticipation
    of how good
    their treat
    would be…
    and it struck me
    (though i’ve
    had this revelation
    thousands of
    it’s the simple
    a moment where
    you think
    it doesn’t get
    any better
    than this
    and maybe in
    that moment
    time stops for
    an instant


  11. avatar
    fergal | 16 May 2006 at 11:50 pm #

    ticking away
    the moments that make up a …

  12. avatar
    Anonymous | 16 May 2006 at 11:50 pm #

    man, heavy stuff first thing when walking in to work. maybe i should do some work instead of reading. but yeah, i keep on reading. beliefs are funny things. the mind chooses the easiest path, whatever makes things easier to bear…there is no rational behind religion. its purely a personal choice. which is why I get irrate when religious fervour dictates feeding beliefs down people’s throats. I want to believe in a greater scheme of things and maybe I do. what other people believe is their choice.

  13. avatar
    verdelay | 16 May 2006 at 11:52 pm #

    Yes, yes

    What are WE to you, my illustrious Illyrian?

    WE who pop out of nowhere to pop in our comments.

    WE who just appear, (just) in time each day.

    WE who argue the toss, with the other tossers

    Are WE “fans” who bought your records?

    Are WE “fiends” who bought your line?

    Are WE “friends” who brought you uncomfortable mirrors?

    Are WE “foes” who brought our weapons this time?

    Time, gentlemen….puh-leeze!

    …I’m afraid I’m out of it.

  14. avatar
    Letango | 17 May 2006 at 12:57 am #

    Beautiful, SK, beautiful.

    The last day I saw my husband, he came home from out of town early.

    “Why so early?”

    “I just had to see you.”

    (It was a day after I rung him at 2am with the details of disturbing dream.)

    “…Death was on our answering machine, hon! He left a message saying it was your time, that there was no avoiding it. He said it’s your time to die that you WILL die.”

    He assured me it was just a dream of my worst fear and, now that I’d spoken it, it had lost its power. (How I wish that were true.) An evening later he came home — as mentioned — early.

    The next morning he had to leave out of town again to finish the work he left behind. (Oh all those things we leave behind undone.)

    “Do you really have to go?… Can you leave later? …Can I go with you?”

    “There’s no time. I have to be there by… Can you get ready fast?”

    “Um, no. Um, yes. I’ll pack some things right away.”

    I dart for the stairs. But, upon seeing the hands on the clock, stop at the second step, knowing I can’t possibly get my stuff together in time to leave with him. Hesitantly, I turn around and say:

    “Oh forget it. Just go.”

    “Are you sure?”


    “What’s wrong. What’s going on?”

    “I don’t know. I just have this bad feeling. I just feel like we haven’t had enough time… like we need more time.”

    “I’ll be back Thursday”


    He drops me off at the post office. We exchange “I love you’s” and I add
    ‘Have a nice trip’ as I shut the door. I watch him take off and walk into the post office.

    I never heard the sirens. Someone, death’s daughter I imagine, started a conversation with me while I got my mail, kept me in there longer than I planned. I didn’t hear the sirens two miles down the road. By the time I left the post office it was all over. I didn’t hear the sirens, damn it, until the bang on the door three hours later.

    A friend, a neighbor, and a cop.

    The dream.
    I knew.
    Our time was gone. It was over.
    Not even our telepathic connection remained. His cord unraveled; I felt him spiraling out from my gut. The very same cord I can feel my babies tug on before they wake from sleep to let me know a little ahead of time ‘ hey, I’m returning, I’m about to cry.’

    Impermanence… I got it.
    And I’m still wailing 13 years later.

    Time. What a trip. A horrifyingly beautiful dance. Believe or disbelieve.

  15. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 May 2006 at 1:08 am #

    I guess we’d better seize the day.
    But fuck, it’s nearly lunchtime!

    Dutch Pierre

  16. avatar
    Paige | 17 May 2006 at 1:13 am #

    SK and all,

    Well…we lowly Earth-beings really have just constructed time. Ain’t that the point of relativity? When you get behind/above/outside the here-n-now, all times exist. Me as an embryo, me as a croney ol’ bitch, Jesus on the cross, birth of the universe…all happening now. It’s just that we only have access to now (unless we tinker with our perception). And I think that far too many people (myself included) try too hard to find that timeless place when we’re not meant to find it yet.

    We get glimpses to feed our souls, to help us remember our ultimate destiny. But really the tedious, everyday tasks of the day are what most people have to tend to until that destiny is fullfilled. Why? I certainly don’t know. How could changing all these damn diapers and perpetually doing dishes and sweeping floors serve my destiny? Heck if I know. But it’s gotta be done. In the meantime, I meditate and pray when I have a second and relish the times that I actually break out. Usually it takes nature to do it for me…mountains, the sea, a field in the sun. My heart just can’t hold it in sometimes.

    I’ve got utmost respect for the serious seekers…monks and nuns, yogis and the rest. But methinks anyone seeking a “quick fix” into timelessness is taking the easy way out. And as you said, while those techniques might buy you a bit, you gotta pay it back with interest.

    My plan? Live well, love unreservedly , learn much and have faith that when the time is right, I’ll step into that timeless dimension myself and join the source of all this beauty.

    It just might work out.


  17. avatar
    crucified in space | 17 May 2006 at 1:22 am #

    time is the mind of god
    you can’t stop it
    or delay it
    or make it skip a beat
    you can hold it though
    as a thought
    and live a lifetime there
    but as you say
    then you gotta pay
    (like dorian gray)

  18. avatar
    isolde | 17 May 2006 at 1:23 am #

    beautful sk, harry, letango, paige
    it seems to me that the incessant voice which we try to quiet is in fact the creative force itself and it’s this very force that drives all living things on an endless quest as a part of their growth as an individual, a family, a people, a nation, a flower, a tree, a cloud, each molecule following the incessantly moving pattern of its life, it is the very same force that drives us to find similarity and difference, something to eat, something to wear, someone to love, babies to care for, travelling to a new land, adapting to the next ice age, writing, painting, singing, making love, whether it be over the last week, over this morning, however huge or miniscule, whether in the sky the sea or the land it is always the same force, and it does well to listen to it and respect it, and let it express its creative force for if you don’t it will drive you mad, it is a power that is frightening and works best when you don’t try to control or direct it with your ego or fear, and if you try to block it out, great pain will result, but as soon as you accept it, you will find a certain peace

  19. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 May 2006 at 1:40 am #

    I think Solomon tried to answer the same in Ecclessiastes

  20. avatar
    triantelope | 17 May 2006 at 1:43 am #

    We do indeed live in a wonderous and improbable universe, which could well have some intelligent entity, some grand designer/architect/artist behind it all.
    But a caring, loving god? I see no evidence of this, as much as I’d love it to be so.

  21. avatar
    mike a | 17 May 2006 at 2:03 am #

    One of your best blogs yet sk!!

  22. avatar
    Letango | 17 May 2006 at 2:36 am #

    Isolde… perfectly expressed. perfect.

  23. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 May 2006 at 2:52 am #

    Time is imaginary….

  24. avatar
    CAPTAIN BEYOND | 17 May 2006 at 3:00 am #

    peace out my friend, peace out…

  25. avatar
    nour-allah | 17 May 2006 at 3:01 am #

    i’ve just recently stumbled upon this page and it’s been drawing me back to it over and over again. now i check in on it every day. a lot of things here that strike a chord with me. maybe it’s Dminor? i’m about to ask my wife to read this latest beautiful blog entry kilbey. please keep ’em coming. texas needs more love and less guns…

  26. avatar
    captainmission | 17 May 2006 at 3:08 am #

    a mission i gladly accept, actually it would be nice to have a choice but sometimes i think you don’t get that luxury. time is just gods way of stopping everything from happening at once, it’s a neat trick and one i am learning to play with. my theory on human existance is based around the idea that as long as we are enslaved by the construct of linear time, that is, the arrow of times direction, flow and cuasality, humanity can only know sufferring. however as time and space and this expanding universe reach event horizon it will start to contract thus times flow reverse itself, bringing with it a few glorious side effects:
    imagine all those relationships that went wrong running backwards, people drifting apart, resentining one another then gradually falling in love.
    imagine the rainforests re growing at a superfast rate, extinct species returning, cities getting smaller, pollution dissappaiting, the air becoming cleaner and the oceans replenished, imagine the decay of age being reversed, born from ash or dust, our existance coming together, starting old and frail, perhaps curroupted with cynicsm or bitterness, gradually becoming more innocent, more childlike and pure, gradually getting younger and healther returning to our parents, imagine the horror of war, as the enemy brings life, the tanks reclaim their missiles and create buildings, cities reconstruct, life is given not taken, everything returns to where it comes from, everything heads towards eden, everything comes back to god.
    yeah often when i am confronted with the usual horrors of existance i just run it backwards. its time travel on the cheap, but it works.
    it’s strange cos thats what my film script was about, the one i wrote for the church, maybe i’ll dig it out one day, anyways excellent blog man. really brilliant stuff, the old surfs looking excellent so i’m off to play. have a beautiful day everyone.

  27. avatar
    Matt | 17 May 2006 at 3:15 am #

    Great blog, sk.

    Listen to your Heart was actually by Roxette.

    And I apologise unequivocally for knowing that.

  28. avatar
    BC | 17 May 2006 at 3:18 am #

    Looking forward to your gig on Friday at the Winebank

  29. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 May 2006 at 3:38 am #

    Can I suggest a topic? It’s not far from where you are now…..I have been listening to The Cure’s ‘Love Song’. Written by Bob Smith about his longtime love Mary. There is something really affecting about this song. I have told my husband I will play this at his funeral (assuming he goes first…God help me)

    Is it possible to have a world in a person?

    A universe in a person?

    Death and loss…(dear GWMcL comes to mind) bring these thoughts to the forefront of my mind.

    I have a great many morbid fantasies about my funeral …..the people there, the music that would be played etc. I think that’s because I like to be well prepared and organised and somehow allowing my self to follow through with these thought processes helps me feel like it will be easier for those who are left here….but who’s ever well prepared for death?

    I cheer myself and move though that stuff in much the same way as Mr SK –

    >by leaving the house

    >by looking into a daughter’s face and listening to their mad ramblings on just about everything

    >by putting on some music and dancing (although there is no evidence SK can dance I bet he does with those little gels)

    >by reading a book I’ve read before because I know I’ll enjoy it (thanks Mr Vonnegut)

    and, just recently…. by reading through the bizarre testimonies of Mr SK.

    Whatever keeps the black dog at bay.

    Au Revoir.

    Bon Bon

  30. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 May 2006 at 3:41 am #

    I think I actually gained an extra minute after reading that and listening to ‘Stage 3’.

    Beautifuly said Steve Kilbey,


  31. avatar
    juniper | 17 May 2006 at 5:29 am #

    That was gorgeous writing. Thank you.
    All very different creatures with individual {and often shared} thoughts and ideas….yet, we still don’t get the message to love one another {look at our world & what’s happening to it}. It doesn’t really matter where your belief system stems from; if we can’t be good to one another, the message gets all blurred; and often lost. Loved reading “a white moon appears like a hole in the sky”, btw. Happy Wednesday to you, too! Enjoy the sunsets, the trees’ whispers and the weeds in the cracks.

  32. avatar
    take not your life for granted | 17 May 2006 at 5:56 am #

    something nice came for me today took your advice and got jack frost, just having my first listens, love especially number eleven, civil war lament, thought that I was over you, threshold, trapeze boy, even as we speak, ramble… in fact all of them, thanks for making such a beautiful record

    your poem 1st may I thought that looks to me like a premonition or 2 steven, the star blood, the angels, the sad vases, miles of star burn branded on the hide of night

    sometimes you know, its strange, there’s strong connections happening beyond what we can understand at the time, it takes years to see it all, maybe that’s what time is for, the understanding that there is another knowing, an unknowing

  33. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 May 2006 at 8:31 am #

    He’s a magic man.. yeahhheaahhh.
    or is it she.. or we..
    striving for mastering the breathless state
    Sammadhi is the height of superconciousness/ within Vedanta perspective
    a connection beyond form and time and perception
    the feeling of silken fingers when the mind caresses the ultimate
    the realization of this function towards the ultimate is what becomes religion
    not all this brimstone and fire and death imagined
    not withstanding is Nature which exists in accordance to physical laws,
    ie. polarized dualities, gravity, physics, yet it is concievable that these attributes possess a conciousness
    that attracts us into creating and formulating Science allowing us to theorize and philosophize..

    So then how is it that concieving our nature is given to random chance, or exposure to experience?
    I feel only the unsatisfied mind contemplates beyond the wall of illusions and into the sea of truth,
    dancing with the mystics, paddling within reason, realizing ultimately that reason can take yu no further
    so does faith becomes cultivated and if you feel this as much, where do you go? who do you trust?
    Yu go to yoga
    and I dont mean pinching your cheeks,
    I mean studying the rishis, the holy ones, they teach yu to make your way,
    yu find that the journey lends itself scientific
    all energy put into developing your skill with Aum is of a measurable and calculated input, Raja be the technique, this physical discipline forges an undeniable communication with yourself / God or the ultimate..

    To the notion of someone being the universe I can attest that feel it to be true
    when you meditate or reflect, are you not able to feel physical elements of the universe?
    gravity, chaos, revolution, orbits, black holes, time warps, antimatter, darkmatter, explosions, implosions, relativity.. I feel I do, that is how I know the ultimate can be realized..
    yet there is going beyond the senses and illuminating the finer fibers within our spinal centers which holds our garden of eden, tree of knowledge, our adam and eve which is our physical manifestation of divinity O+>
    but hey how is it possible to love without attachment
    without continuously falling into the ever laborious mode of suffering
    when so many have gone beyond it..
    And can we love one another or our intimates as we love the lord?
    in the indescribable silent way..
    ahh.. what is life.. without

    jaime rodriguez

  34. avatar
    The Lonely Quark | 17 May 2006 at 9:07 am #


  35. avatar
    Daberhasher | 17 May 2006 at 10:53 am #

    i’m printing that slice of soul and keeping it with my copy of the Desiderata… instant words to live by, and/or to whack yourself back in line if need be… and thanks also for the grape juice tales… i drank that stuff nonstop as a kid, and then, gone… replaced with foolishness, so yeah, i needed something with some restorative powers… that first sniff when i opened the bottle took me directly back to me, 8-10 years old, whoa… now if i just get some Clark desert boots, i might be able to make the journey…


  36. avatar
    carousel | 17 May 2006 at 11:26 am #

    if evolution is god’s attempt to self realise
    do you get the impression god’s a little slow?
    oh well
    we’re just inches from angels now!

  37. avatar
    rubikon | 17 May 2006 at 12:23 pm #

    On the hours hands
    You’re but a moment on your own,
    A moment almost never seen

  38. avatar
    John Garratt | 17 May 2006 at 1:52 pm #

    “i read somewhere that the odds of life starting
    on this planet and all this coming into being
    are the same odds that a hurricane blowing thru
    a junkyard
    will assemble a boeing 707
    you wanna go with those odds, john
    im sure you gotta smart arse one liner for that too
    its ok”

    No, actually I don’t. I think I had heard something like that before from an Arthur C. Clarke novel, but the 707 anology is much better.

    I like how you dished the odds back at me there. I’m sorry, I’m just confused these days.

    And I love you too, man. Have been listening to your stuff for half my life.

    “do something nice for yerselves”

    Okay. My boss is out today, so I think I’ll take a nap.

  39. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 May 2006 at 2:14 pm #

    “someone said the drugs don’t work” – that would be Richard Ashcroft. Obviously he was right. I mean, come on, look at the man.

  40. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 May 2006 at 2:20 pm #

    “i read somewhere that the odds of life starting on this planet and all this coming into being are the same odds that a hurricane blowing thru a junkyard will assemble a boeing 707”

    I read something like that too, only it compared the odds to a hurricane blowing through a machine shop, and assembling a quality auto-repeating firearm.

    ha! Love from Texas where we need more love and more guns.

  41. avatar
    daydreamer | 17 May 2006 at 2:34 pm #

    the mind and body are “just hardware and software being used by an immortal spirit” – nicely put.

    I can’t help but wonder though, what happens to the spirit once it leaves the mind and body? If conciousness resides in the mind, the spirit cannot “think, therefore ” etc. There’s no body, no physical manifestation. What gives proof to its existance, even to itself? Does it exist anywhere beyond the minds of the still concious?

    Now, I’m not saying I don’t believe in the spirit. I just wonder if that belief exists simply to give comfort in the context of an otherwise disturbing situation.

    I don’t always agree with you Steve, but I vastly enjoy your blog.


  42. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 May 2006 at 2:36 pm #

    Don’t believe everything you read.

  43. avatar
    Paige | 17 May 2006 at 2:46 pm #


    I LOVE this discussion. Thanks for spurring it, SK and for jumpin’ in, guys.


  44. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 May 2006 at 2:53 pm #

    The lyrics to “kings” come to mind:
    See history fade, it’s crystal clear
    Aurora what you doing here
    Buttering the mouths of thieves
    Shutter speed it bleeding leaves

    In gardens in the orient
    Likelihood is good and spent
    Herod nods beneath the palms
    Holds poor baby in his arms

    Tunis and Sardinia
    The ocean growing hungrier
    Beneath these walls we’ll sleep tonight
    Beneath this sky we’ll glide so bright

    And kings will come, years will pass
    Stars burn cold beneath the glass
    And days will glow in distant times
    In distorted haze the zebras graze

    In deserts where the dust storm blows
    And lush black swamps where mandrake grows
    We’re marching laughing to the drum
    Waiting for those kings to come

    An infant with the voice of a crone
    In Nebuchanezzar’s parking zone
    Calls out my lord your end is nigh
    I didn’t mean to make you cry

    The circus sun in Nero eyes
    The lions and the Christians rise
    Software sings and hardware hears
    We’re destined babe to live these years


  45. avatar
    Casey casem | 17 May 2006 at 3:34 pm #

    I thought “Listen to your Heart” was by Tom Petty

  46. avatar
    matthew | 17 May 2006 at 3:34 pm #

    Steve… yer on the right track. It’s a narrow one! Check the journalling of another matthew… circa chapter 7. Cool man!

  47. avatar
    CeciliaGin | 17 May 2006 at 4:42 pm #

    si se puede!

  48. avatar
    Sleepycat | 17 May 2006 at 4:49 pm #

    The line about the aircraft and the junkyard came from the maverick astronomer Fred Hoyle, whose books were hugely popular a few decades ago. Hoyle said “A junkyard contains all the bits and pieces of a Boeing-747, dismembered and in disarray. A whirlwind happens to blow through the yard. What is the chance that after its passage a fully assembled 747, ready to fly, will be found standing there?” As others reported the story, the aircraft had a touch of identity crisis, and shrunk down to a 707 instead.

    Hoyle’s line was based on Hoyle reckoning the chance of life evolving through the spontaneous creation of 2000 amino acids with 200 proteins each at being 1 in 10 followed by 40,000 zeroes. Hoyle and his pals, on this basis, reckoned life arrived on earth not necessarily from God, but from elsewhere, perhaps on comets. This theory had a name that isn’t easily forgotten once heard – “panspermia”.

    Hoyle’s argument isn’t considered crash hot by scientists these days. Living cells don’t have to pop up spontaneously out of nowhere but can develop from slightly less complex structures. Things like viruses are still subject to a sort of evolution even though they’re not actually “alive”. We still don’t know if the emergence of life (assuming no G*d) was hugely improbable, or more or less certain to happen, or somewhere in between.

    Ditto for all similar arguments about the existence of the universe being really unlikely. They *always* turn out to be too simplistic, to have missed ways in which things could have happened without G*d.

    When it’s portrayed as stuff happening at random, the no-god view sounds totally sucky. But actually scientists believe there is direction in the universe, it’s just that it’s not one that’s in any way conscious/intentional. It’s one that results from certain of the random things making it and certain not (and which ones make it or don’t isn’t random but depends, at times alas, on whether they can hack it in the universe they find themselves in long enough to go make near-copies of themselves in some kinda fashion) and over enough repeats of that it’s a very powerful thing. It doesn’t know what it’s doing, but that doesn’t stop it from doing a hell of a lot.

    I think there’s a wonder that complex things can flourish and seem to be supported and that wonder can be shared by believers and sceptics alike, and the ones who are really missing out are just those who don’t get that bit at all and don’t realise how nifty it all is, wherever it comes from.

    Ah, hundreds of words of the usual academic waffle when I could have just done it the easy way. Like this:

    There’s no such thing as evolution …


    I’ve been wanting to say that for, oh, about sixteen years!

  49. avatar
    Sleepycat | 17 May 2006 at 4:51 pm #

    Disclaimer: The last sentence of my previous post was simply not true at all, and was brought to anyone fool enough to read it by something Leonard Cohen said to Suzanne Vega over breakfast one fine morning.

  50. avatar
    daydreamer | 17 May 2006 at 4:53 pm #

    Speaking of the Boeng 747, when you look up at the sky at one of those things – or are riding in one, for that matter – isn’t it a little hard to believe that that huge monstrosity can stay aloft, and travel at such speeds in mid-air? Now, anyone who didn’t at least partially understand the physics of such, might be inclined to say “God did this! How else could it be?”

    Just a thought.


  51. avatar
    Andromeda7 | 17 May 2006 at 4:55 pm #

    to each their own faith…

    or openness to complete unknowing, and acceptance of the inability to know how everything was created…

    see how the busy insistence on having the final word, the most summing-up of all the summations that is the mind, seeks god as an answer?

    unknowing certainty is my answer, and never could that stump my amazement at the odds of all this existing anywhere for a second, or dampen my delight that my molecules weren’t arranged into a stone or a cloud of gas or some ooze in the pond out back intead

    sheer wonder

    xxx time to sleep tight in melbun ozstaylya cold night half moon zzzz

  52. avatar
    superlative | 17 May 2006 at 5:45 pm #

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    — Arthur C. Clark

    I’d say that also goes for life, evolution, technology, guns, {insert here}. Perhaps your mind just doesn’t have the apparatus to yet decipher any meaning beyond face value. Anything you can’t completely fathom conjures fear. And fear is the basis of religions and conjecture and prosaic conclusions and of scathing rebuttal criticisms, any meaning is lost within self-aggrandizing detritus.

    …and fear is so completely contagious.

  53. avatar
    superlative | 17 May 2006 at 6:10 pm #

    Dear John Garratt –

    We wince as you’re blown over by such a mildly brisk and fleeting wind. Rue the day the pensive SK may lash out at you. Stand up for yourself mate.

    Here, I reposted something from your blog. I think it is succinctly stated.

    “Whenever I go to an art museum, I rely heavily on the bits and pieces written on the wall next to the piece on display. This gives me much more anchorage than I care to admit. Seriously, a pile of paperclips could be dumped on the gallery floor, be entitled Farewell to Humanity, and it isn’t until I read the snipet on the wall that I suddenly feel smart.”

    Drawing a parallel, I think we could all use some bits and pieces next to this blog, though I would entitle it “Farewell to Humility.”

    Step back fifty feet and see all of this in another light – alphanumeric arial verdana sans-serif bitstream (on mixed media, as supplied by user).

  54. avatar
    Elduvik | 17 May 2006 at 6:58 pm #

    This was the blog entry I was looking forward to read. I am one of those skeptics and I suffer a lot for it. I’ll try to look at the sunset with different eyes…


  55. avatar
    Anonymous | 17 May 2006 at 9:21 pm #

    Wow. Okay, who is superlative? Truth be told, the fact that someone went, read my blog, and quoted it here scares me a little.

  56. avatar
    crucified in space | 17 May 2006 at 10:15 pm #

    carousel said…

    “if evolution is god’s attempt to self realise
    do you get the impression god’s a little slow?
    oh well
    we’re just inches from angels now!”

    well evolution may be a little slow, but good things take time.
    our babyverse will grow up and join the rest of the brood.

  57. avatar
    sue cee | 18 May 2006 at 5:55 am #

    Im not totally convinced SK. Why does the beauty you see have to have been created by some other being, why cant it be in the eye of the beholder? I think there’s spirituality, but I cant lock into a total belief.

    Mind you, if I get to the pearly gates, I will humbly allow you to say ‘I told you so’:) I may be one of those buying last minute tix from satan’s scalpers at exhorbitant price from EvilBay!

  58. avatar
    Anonymous | 18 May 2006 at 5:14 pm #


    the Lordeth cannot be percieved by the musings of comic book writing.. can I get an Aum!!
    and then again to understand the Lord one must be strong enough to laugh
    the way through suffering, the limits of reason and the laziness of the senses

    just peruse my friends,
    I was baptised Catholic, raised agnostic, flew athiest,
    landed into Vedanta, firmly at the bottom in the most serene pond
    scary though, full of killer fish
    and I m nervous about standing still
    so I must learn to breathe calmness, I must… that is what the word peace is about aye..
    and some may say I should leave the pond, yu gotta evolve.. revolt, and I say I am, I am revolving into the ultimate
    and my small amplification of the One says..
    what need have I for this
    what need have I for that
    I am dancing at the foot of my Lord’s delight
    all is bliss

    See Vedanta
    see Vivekananda
    here you dont fool yourself into belief

    I was just as scientific as the rest
    “show me proof” Bullshit!!!!
    the pages unfolded and the words they reached out so far
    into everything, into all the things you take for granted the things you know you need to know.. about your souls
    about the movements, the stars, the atoms, the nature, the cosmos, the atman, the contemplation, the self
    and I was never scared, yet I was nervous, I realized that I was realizing
    and I never was fishing for this so-called religion thing, heck I didnt know what it was..

    “I saw all these men sleeping clothes covered in red, I thought about it heard a voice say “they came in search for God but found religion instead” -De La Soul

    I just knew that scientist where amazing explorers and admirers, and i feel they have a fascination with God
    it translates in its method, but just as it should it does not imply an attitude, it tests its divine pertinence
    among many other things, read Stephen Jay Gould, Carl Sagan, S. Hawking I have heard so many other brilliant minds to which I would appreciate anyone to suggest someone special..

    So this Aumness/ God Ultimate
    problem is that we’ve paid attention to all the wrong things said about it
    we gave it a Name, a purpose, we supposed its origin and intentions
    My friends this is not the truth, this is humanity and langauge and
    limited insight into something so true and simple,
    Its all about your dance moves kids!!
    if you can shake thru the senses beyond dry circular logic and the unnecessary jargon of reason,
    you will be able to create a vision that is less founded on the ego
    and from there evolution is also relevant, it is all relevant
    Sorry Sk for inspiring the sermon here.. dont mean to infringe or go on like a boy scout minister
    i just know it works and it saves like Jazz, Funk, Blues, Ragas, and Rock N Roll..
    Yu know if my father woulda never said hey whatdya think about this prayer mis ninos?
    it talks about meditation and prayer and how we are everything and there is a way to speak to the most
    wonderful thing in this universe, It would not be the Church that it is, it makes sense yall,
    and yeah going beyond the senses is pretty rough, the loveless fascination it brings a tear to my eyes..

    for yourselves for all
    Swami Vivekananda:
    read jnana yoga, karma and raja yoga.

    the elevators later
    but its quicker to just wait for a lift..
    j rodriguezzzzzzzz /

  59. avatar
    John Garratt | 17 July 2006 at 6:02 pm #

    Who is Superlative? Reading my blog and quoting it? That’s crazy!


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