posted on February 26, 2007 at 10:49 am

was thinking about this book i saw
written by the the worlds # 3 intellectual
(how do ya go up n down that ladder?)
using his much vaunted intellect
to prove that god doesnt exist
and im not gonna pretend that i have read the book
i just kinda gave it a ten minutes skim
but the gist of it seems to be
a kinda atheistic scientific proof
along the lines of
we have reproduced mystical n transcendental states
in subjects by stimulating their such n such cortex
or by the administration of such n such
some strange kinda thinking along the lines of
that if we understand the material means by which something
is (said to be) done then we understand the thing itself.
we know how therefore we know why
unreliable facts n figures (i reckon)
about when this or that happened millions of years ago
(like any of us could really know)
the scientists n thinkers of every age
think that they got it all sussed
but nothing like a hundred years to disprove a few facts
and this 3rd ranking intellectual
urges us to embrace darwinism
a new age of reason
everything is accidental n chemicalistic
life is random
its all for nothing
sure sure
we should do our best
i mean he isnt promoting anarchy or hedonism
hes just saying
look we have descended from monkeys
get over yer fancy mysticism n all that malarkey
theres no god
theres just our obligation to be reasonable
and find a rational explanation for everything
this is sposed to free us from the shackles
of the god the number 3 guy is pretty angry with
and so he should be
its a kinda jehovahey allahey kinda god
that number 3 rails against
and here we get terribly sidetracked
and surely is there an other option
besides monkeys or olde testament
how about this one
there was no beginning
everything was always here
men women squirrels whales wasps apple trees thistles stones shells
the whole fucking she-bang
always always always here
i mean its always been here since i been here
and i have no reason to suspect it wasnt here before me
long before me
or anyone
who was around to say
i was there at the beginning
and you know
get it authenticated
so you know carbon dating yeah!
oh the world came into existence on this date
cos i carbon tested yonder rock
well im not so sure
maybe youre not right
and this evolution thing
this accidental thing
i mean this is some compex accident
an accident that imitates design
i mean as a very crude and basic creator myself
of children n songs n blogges etc
i must confess i have come to admire this world
i mean ok
you think picassos great and he is
but he just paints pictures
of the real objects
the creator has created
it goes against all my instincts
to not see and hear
the melodies
the patterns
the great works stretched across the sky
or across a century
the feeling of being guided
the feeling of being blessed
now another thing about #3
he is an atheist
so do you suppose
he has spent much time
mastering the “god” arts n techniques
has he ever been in a trance?
has he ever meditated over long periods?
does he practise any form of yoga?
is he actually conversant with any hindu or buddhist thought
rather than glib quotes?
i mean these things take time to master
you cant say youve investigated god
unless youve taken sometime
to practise some form of transcendantal discipline
its like saying that french is gibberish
before learning to speak french
which takes years
and a leap of faith at the beginning
so has # 3 taken any mushrooms or peyote
or ibogaine or ayahuasca or anything
has he investigated the very real worlds which are but a plant away?
and ya know
i just dont feel darwinism
im sorry
im sorry
where are the birds with half a wing
and turtles with half a shell?
yeah yeah things adapt
its built in
(to me merely another wonder)
but dont go telling people
its all for nothing
unless youre very very sure
i say
think of all the other possibilities
for the explanation of the appearance of this world
and its diverse creatures
than accident or jehovah
and i refuse to let them
prove to me in some equation i can never understand..
that the things i hold sacred and godgiven
are merely blips n blops in a chemical chain
they are that to be sure
but not merely that
no more than someone who has worked out the chords
to under the milky way means that
he understands the songs attributes or creation
or even that he can replicate the song decently
no he has merely deduced one aspect of the thing
so our # 3 has deduced a few aspects of life
or so we may care to think
until the next wave of thought comes along
and in 5 hundred years
if there is a planet left at all
(and folks the christians AND the atheists got us into this mess)
i reckon they would laugh at the quaint ideas
he now postulates as a modern call to reason
and anyhow
modern science is turning towards what the indians
said thousands of years ago
everything is illusion
there is nothing solid
everything is vibration
ok number 3 probably can dig that now
some guy in harvard put it in a handy equation for us
but 50 years ago it was quite preposterous
but the guys who realised this all those years ago
they understood it
because they had mastered the arts of contemplation
they were love in action
and they combined science n poetry n philosophy
n cosmology all into one groovy thing
and they sussed it
and if you do what they did
you might feel it too
and aint it unsurprising that atheistic searches
yeild atheistic results
yes you can find a million things to be angry with god about
you can find anomalies in nature
you can blame him cos you were born ugly or poor
you can hate him cos you were unpopular at school
you can cast him as jehovah from the olde testa
and loathe his arbitrary bullshit
and say thats it im done with god
and then ignore it all
the ratios
the systems within systems within systems
the sheer beauty of the sky which changes from minute to minute
(oh yeah says mr 3 thats just photons n light blah blahs etc)
so what picassos just blobs of oil paint but that dont demystify it
look mysticism is so deeply a part of my life
everything i do has been to glorify the mysterious mystery of life
i cant turn around and embrace this rational world now
i’d rather be a fool in my world
with its signs n signals n beliefs n superstitions
with the untransmittable things i have gleaned in garudasana
in the soft rain on my balcony
when my rational western brain shut up for half a second
and the immensity n the love of it all
and the calmness and the ok ness
and the reason it had to be that way
of course number 3 has his logic and latest equations
i have my songs n my poems
he comes to say that this is it
what ya see is what ya get
take care of it by all means
in fact now you can really take care of it
cos i just proved on page 666 of my book
that god is utterably non existent
i come to say
no no no
oh boy
wow this is weird
can anything be believed here?
im gonna try some things
that these other guys tried
like psychedelic drugs
and yoga
and eating foods that vibrate at higher rates
etc etc
see what results i get
and the results i get
aint really going along with the new age of reason too much
but thats just me
and youll be able to quote stuff at me till the sacred cows come home
and maybe quote # 3 in my comments page
but all to no avail
i know what i know
there are more than one or two or three possible answers
if even finding an answer is the right word
a very human way of looking at things to be sure
beginnings endings causes
these things obseess humans
and we impose them on everything
and somethings maybe
are just there
or another kinda god
not jehovah
but a subtle artistic approachable god
a vishnu in your own heart
a personal jesus
an ideal
a guiding light
a wonderful creator
who tosses off universes as he sleeps
my experience has been mystical
a voice inside me says pursue this
my instincts say no darwinism
are we not men?
my instincts say
you have lived many many times before
my instincts say treasure this earth
but it is a shadow of some real place
but place isnt the right word
and we get tangled up in words
which dont even describe the grace n love of god
as i have felt them very occaisionally
but how could i be me and not say these things
i understand nothing of science
i just still see the sunset and think
i see the ocean on a stormy day and im impressed
i see the tenderness of motherhood
i see the burgeoning spirit of my children
i feel my thoughts turn again n again to god
something out there
something in here
all around
and nowhere
and its so hard to believe
but its all one thing
not even really there
try some discipline before you say god is dead

74 Responses to “tomorrows blogge today”

  1. avatar
    mike a | 26 February 2007 at 12:37 pm #

    Sk- very nice blog, I think one of your best – very nice job – I couldn’t agree more!!

  2. avatar
    eek | 26 February 2007 at 1:23 pm #

    I don’t think god is dead — I just don’t think one (or more) ever existed. Can I prove it? Nope, and I don’t try because I can’t prove it. And neither can anyone else, just as no one can prove that there is a god. Humans aren’t capable of knowing these things even if we desperately want to know them. The best we can do is believe whichever scenario works best for each of us.

    But those who purport to know — on either (all?) side of this equation are clever bastards. They sell shitloads of books and fill countless seminars and churches with their “I know!” claims. Those who claim to know god exists, or claim to know god doesn’t exist and start religions/churches/cults/whatever, or write books are self promoting con men.

    We can and should learn, by any and every means available, as much as possible about this world in which we live. But proof of our ultimate origins isn’t something we can ever truly know.

    …at least not until we reach that highest lifeform — cat. 😉

  3. avatar
    Anonymous | 26 February 2007 at 1:43 pm #

    absolutely the world is filled with con-men going on about god and their personal relationship but….. i do not believe that they are all con-men. look at sk’s story about kicking the beast, laying on the floor and giving up everything for peace and sleep. he was visited there and shown true love.
    i think sometimes god just pops in for a hello, a reminder.
    if you don’t believe that you need god then god may have trouble helping you…..??????
    oh my sorry dunno what i’m going on about. early morning here


  4. avatar
    davem | 26 February 2007 at 1:57 pm #

    Believing in god seems better than the alternative vision.
    Neither science nor faith has an easy to digest, unquestionable answer.
    I’m on the fence. But the older I get the less I seem to know and the less ridiculous the concept of an all-powerful deity becomes.
    Hope you enjoyed your break SK.
    Love you more,

    Dave M

  5. avatar
    verdelay | 26 February 2007 at 2:05 pm #

    We cast certainty against certainty
    And all we spark is doubt;
    But doubt in turn sparks wonder
    And wonder we can’t live without

    (repeat and fade)

  6. avatar
    matthew | 26 February 2007 at 2:11 pm #

    nicely put sk. as i’ve said before – i’m so on the wavelength with you on this. (or is it photon magnitude??)

  7. avatar
    Anonymous | 26 February 2007 at 4:15 pm #

    we can never say for certain that god exists. that is the truth. i love newton i love blake, reason has its limits ans so does feeling. no one gets to taste the whole pie of all realities. but we are all conected so if thier is a god it is one and all of us

  8. avatar
    Malcolm | 26 February 2007 at 4:32 pm #

    Everytime that I am feeling sad or overwhelmed; you are an inspiration to me…

  9. avatar
    Tim | 26 February 2007 at 4:37 pm #

    Right on, Stevie, yeah…

    I don’t know why the evolution and “intelligent design” concepts can’t coexist?

    I mean I believe nature evolves and developes but at the same time (somewhat) enlightened humanity seems to have sprung out of “nowhere”.

    Personally, I think some “thing” did interact with organisms on this planet. I don’t think any scientist really knows the true history of humanity.

  10. avatar
    Anonymous | 26 February 2007 at 4:56 pm #

    Quest…what about the fragility of the Body?? I’ve seen it pass away and i just cant get a grip on it…with all this transcendence…i rub my eyes but the tragic feeling never fades (oh maybe it did once) …always fighting that one….Soul outside the Body? GOD PLEASE SHOW ME THE WAY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dee in Taxes… It’s a beautiful day in ATX!!!!!!!!!! Vivid dreams the last two days…Good Luck $$$$$

  11. avatar
    Anonymous | 26 February 2007 at 5:03 pm #

    and to think…you formed a band and called it the Church. huh.

  12. avatar
    Centuryhouse | 26 February 2007 at 5:11 pm #

    I consider myself agnostic. It’s not that I believe or disbelieve – it’s that I just don’t know either for sure.

    The thing about someone like guy #3 pushing this on everyone else and all others like him is that they typically 1) have some beef with religion already, and 2) embrace their unprovable theories as a new form of religion – solid in their faith – and begin proselytizing, making all efforts to smash the various faiths of others.

    The fact is that there is no way to know or prove for sure how things came to be.

    I am in a strange spot. I hold no belief, yet I find theories of spontaneous evolution to be unconvincing as it contradicts many of the basic rules of science.

    At any rate, it was a good blog to read.

  13. avatar
    shawn_el | 26 February 2007 at 5:51 pm #

    So who is the #3 intellectual? Does the book really claim to be written by the #3? I think that’s funny enough on its own…that people would have such a black and white view to think you can rank the intellectuals of the world.

  14. avatar
    John Garratt | 26 February 2007 at 5:54 pm #

    “and ya know
    i just dont feel darwinism”

    What if one can’t feel god?


  15. avatar
    Anonymous | 26 February 2007 at 5:57 pm #

    Steve, a very interesting take on God and evolution. The truth can be found in the oldest and wisest book ever written, the bible. First, there is just too much archaeological proof that shows to the bible to be true and correct.

    Good for you for using God’s name as found in Psalms 83:18, Jehovah. Most bibles have had the name removed for many different reasons. However, an accurate study of the scriptures will show that God’s name is Jehovah.

    The theory of evolution revolves around the fact that man evolved from apes and monkeys. Many scientists have been unable to prove this theory. (Funny, if man evolved from apes, why do we still have apes?)

    Astronomer Robert Jastrow says: “To their chagrin [scientists] have no clear-cut answer, because chemists have never succeeded in reproducing nature’s experiments on the creation of life out of nonliving matter. Scientists do not know how that happened.”—The Enchanted Loom: Mind in the Universe (New York, 1981), p. 19.

    According to New Scientist: “An increasing number of scientists, most particularly a growing number of evolutionists . . . argue that Darwinian evolutionary theory is no genuine scientific theory at all. . . . Many of the critics have the highest intellectual credentials.”—June 25, 1981, p. 828.
    Physicist H. S. Lipson said: “The only acceptable explanation is creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed it is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the experimental evidence supports it.” (Italics added.)—Physics Bulletin, 1980, Vol. 31, p. 138.

    You are right Steve, when you look at the sunset, go to the beach, take a walk thru a forest, see you children playing. That is your creator, that is Jehovah. Think about when you are at the beach. The tide only comes so far and stops. It would be foolish to think that this just happens because of evolution. How the earth produces food for us to eat. How the plants provide air for us to breath.

    There is a reason why the theory of evolution is out there. There is a reason there is so much crime, hatred and ugliness in this world. There is a reason why humans get sick, grow old and die. There is a reason the most religions teach non-bible truths and pass the moneybox at the same time. The answers can be found in the bible and I have found only one religion that can provide those answers. Jehovah’s Witnesses. People may laugh or scoff at this and that is fine. They did that in Noah’s day and we know what happened to those people.

    There is a reason that Jehovah’s Witnesses go to people homes. To share bible truths and provide answers to the tough questions. Do you see any other religion doing that? Jehovah is not to blame for the problems we have. That is Satan. 1st John 5:19 states the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one. On the other hand, 1st John 4:8 states that God is love.

    Like I said Steve and other blog readers, the answers are there to find. Most people will not want to hear this or even care. The bible states that would be the case. I felt it important to say the truth about Evolution, Jehovah (again, God’s name) and comment about today’s blog.

  16. avatar
    persephone2u | 26 February 2007 at 6:13 pm #

    I may not know exactly who this #3 intellectual is, but that doesn’t change the fact that he is a man with an agenda. And in this particular case the agenda is to spread his particular brand of belief aka atheism to the masses and sell as many books as possible.

    I imagine that there are people out there who will pick up the book, read the back, and exclaim, “Jiminy cricket! It says right here he’s the top 3 intellectual in the country/world and that must mean something, huh? That means he’s smarter than me so what he’s saying must be true and I never liked going to church anyway so maybe he’s got a point.” Another book sold.

    Veering off the subject a bit, I’m curious to know what the basis of his intellectuality is judged upon. Last I checked there wasn’t a worldwide standard set up to combine all Mensa members, Nobel Prize winners and all the rest. Methinks this man is blowing his own horn just a bit. Compare that with the great Socrates who said, “I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.”

    I am always wary whenever a man of letters (Nietzsche) or a man of science (Darwin) proclaims God to be dead. It is all well and good to state their beliefs, but that is all that they are — beliefs.

    Once upon a time scientists and the world at large didn’t believe in the existence of germs simply because they didn’t know about them. But with the advent of the microscope, voila! The germs were always there but there was no adequate method for seeing or measuring them, let alone learning about them.

    Having just said that above it is highly unlikely that in this lifetime or any other there will ever be a way of proving or disproving the existence of a God and that is as it should be. People should keep their hearts, minds and eyes open at all times and decide for themselves based on what they have read, seen, observed and felt. Everyone’s personal experience is very different and the truth such as it is can never be explained — it is a process one has to discover for themselves. Even enlightened Buddhists could never place their experiences into a rational framework that would satisfy scientists . But tis true that thousands of years ago Hindus perceived that all was vibration and that now scientists know this to be accurate. Science is just now catching up to religion/spirituality.

    There is power in each and every one of us to discover the hidden truths and mysteries out there, but if we are only looking for truths that are measurable in some quantifiable way as scientists would have it, then I fear we shall never discover them.

  17. avatar
    CAPTAIN BEYOND | 26 February 2007 at 7:04 pm #

    give us some more truth me esskay…
    Lord Anu

  18. avatar
    Icky | 26 February 2007 at 8:03 pm #

    To think that you penned the line ‘deep without a meaning’… Beautifully worded viewpoint. Always inspiring to see personal spiritual experience flying in the face of dry intellectual argument. As you said in an earlier blogge, if you want proof that (a) god exists (and what is ‘proof’ anyway?) then look at the sky/the flowers/your children etc. And all this searching for god- I gotta funny feeling he’s not lost.
    Fab start to the day, as always.



  19. avatar
    Anonymous | 26 February 2007 at 8:12 pm #

    silly, everyone knows that this is just a simulation…no really…

    do you really not believe in evolution? i’m a bit upset at that given the tip the world has taken towards glib religious dismissal and intolerance of centuries worth of learning. this is the point of view of the mad mossie or the fundamentalist neo-con


  20. avatar
    Anonymous | 26 February 2007 at 8:22 pm #

    Saint Kilbey – Psalm 5

  21. avatar
    Mr. Ricky | 26 February 2007 at 8:38 pm #

    So glad you wrote about this!!! VERY thought provoking stuff, Thanks for sharing!!!

  22. avatar
    Sunshine | 26 February 2007 at 9:03 pm #

    I saw an article in an issue of Wired magazine from a few months ago that is possibly about the book, and definitely about the subject you’re referring to.

    I found it on the web here:

    I tend to shy away from discussing religion. I consider myself a spiritual person, but I don’t trust organized religion. I’m not sure exactly what I believe, but I’m okay with that. I have appropriated an odd belief in reincarnation. And, yes, I do believe in evolution and life as we know it being based on some sort of energy or force (thanks, George Lucas). I don’t know. I’m an eternal student, what can I say? Life was so much easier at 16 when I had all the answers. LOL!

    Maybe in 500 years we’ll have developed wings. Now that would help solve the energy crisis.


  23. avatar
    Sunshine | 26 February 2007 at 9:12 pm #

    PS – Another interesting part of that article is about Greg Graffin of Bad Religion, and how he’s got a Ph.D. in zoology from Cornell.


  24. avatar
    God | 26 February 2007 at 9:43 pm #

    Don’t make me come down there!

  25. avatar
    the dean | 26 February 2007 at 10:01 pm #

    holy war fought with science’s bombs

  26. avatar
    craig1.618 | 26 February 2007 at 10:04 pm #

    “If one inspired innocent loving soaring dreamer believes in a universe of joy and light and perfect being, and if she’s wrong and dies, it’s not the dreamer who’s been foolish, but the universe.”

    -Richard Bach

  27. avatar
    Anonymous | 26 February 2007 at 10:15 pm #

    ‘I think, therefore I am’. (René Descartes)


  28. avatar
    mattdavison | 26 February 2007 at 10:25 pm #

    Hari Om steve..

    That is why the time being exists.


    U see sk #3 is well …only if anything mildly interlectual

    #3=Mindless,all that cerebral fodder, benign yet swelling up like a tumor, is all that un-godly intellegence.

    People like #3 only know one thing.

    That they (people like#3have no connection,with humanity,
    the church
    – churches,
    energy-life forces…


    they spend all their privlaged lives hiding within a cave of cognitive blabber.. Like a silkworm in a metal-fiber factory..(no bloody use at all.
    Don’t let it worry you buddy He ain’t gonna change the world.

    ((((((But you just might my friend.

  29. avatar
    Anonymous | 26 February 2007 at 10:31 pm #

    Man….. created god. humans desperately need to believe in something. oraganized religions cause war and unneccesary death. The earth is a rock close to a star that hasnt burned out yet. this particular ” rock” grew an atmosphere ( looks to me like the conditions we just right for this to happen ) In the universe there are other rocks with atmospheres that may sustain life ( EVEN SEMI INTELLIGENT LIFE LIKE OUR INTERESTING ROCK ) men constantly ponder and need to ask ” why ” or ” how ” but there simply is no ” why ” or “how” just
    “is”. I’m not an educated person, but realizing that we humans clearly don’t fit into the natural scheme of things is very important. Everything we do is harmful to the earth. Since the Industrial revolution we have done almost irreversible damage to the earth. As Sk points out we even industrialized animals for our hedonistic existence. we believe in ” human progress ” …… there is no such thing. Humans are deceitful, greedy and uneccesary. Human mental illnes should be enough to prove my point . I think as a human sk has the right idea ( veg is smart ) create art to at least legitimaize our selfish existences. Many humans possess the right kind of moral code, but too many are untrustworthy selfish filth. It’s just a short trip down the road before human being s leave this earth for good. Religion is just hogwash MAN created to both entertain himself, control others and try to answer that question ” why ” or ” how ” here is the answer. Live well , treat others well, try to live responsibly with the earth.

  30. avatar
    Anonymous | 26 February 2007 at 10:33 pm #

    I wish you didn’t mention intelligent design…. I can back your thoughts, i can feel them, dig them,… but the concept of intelligent design has been taken up in the USofA by the dark side, used as a front for fundamentalism……and we know what happens when you take the fun outa fundamental…yr left with the mental…..

  31. avatar
    Satan | 26 February 2007 at 10:51 pm #

    (Funny, if man evolved from apes, why do we still have apes?)

    It’s when people say stupid shit like that that makes me real sad. Obviously you don’t know shit.

    I piss on the shoes of your doorstep darkeners when they come knocking.

  32. avatar
    stealthblue | 26 February 2007 at 10:56 pm #

    I just think it is all kind of the same…how ever you want to explain or rationalize something. Everyone has some sort of say, don’t they, some sort of belief or doctrine, or lack of for that matter. To me God=science=spirituality=nothingness=universal chaos=male versus/equals female=ego=power struggle=positive =negative=black=white=grey, and everyshade in the color spectrum=technology=religion=intellect=etc, etc, etc. It has been this way since time immemorial…not everyone will see eye to eye or ass to ass on how it all got started, or where we came from, or who’s god is better, who’s honor roll student is smarter, whether or not there is a god, or whether or not there should be an honor roll, blah, blah, blah. Jesus Christ.

    What’s the big deal? We are never going to figure it all out, no matter who feels they are more apt to do so, or more connected to “God”, gods, Allahs, Joehovies, or who knows more fucking nifty formulas/equations, who has more “evidence” or whatever.
    The bottom line is…life finds a way, always has and always will, no matter where it has begun or is going.

    I know what I believe, and it is pretty darn close to how SK sees things, and most of you all I suppose. But no “#3” could ever change my mind, because I know what I know (and don’t know for that matter)and what I have been through and what I believe helped see me through things, and no negative “#3’intellectual'” is going to drain my veins with lack of spiritualism and transfuse me with some bleak outlook.
    Obviously this fella doesn’t think we have any kind of “soul” either, or any other creatures beside the mighty human has any kind of feelings or thoughts? I dunno, whatever floats your boat I guess, but all I know is it’s going to be a long, long road ahead for the mighty human being, this Earth and our fellow co-inhabitants. Hell, anyone can get a TV show now, and if you sell it enough, the peeps (the sheeps)will buy in to it. For instance, how many times have you heard the Oprah endorsed book “The Secret” advertised, etc. That thing is selling by the truckload. something we knew all along, positive thinking etc. Now, so many people are just “discovering this” thanks to our hero. Now just think if old #3 paid Opera enough to say she “read” his book, that thing would go like wild fire. SICK!

    “#3 intellect”..pfffttt!! Piss on that! Was that self-appointed (or inflicted) perhaps? I mean were there two others this individual just respected enough to place them in front of himself and then declared “That’s it, I’M the number 3 intellect in the WHOLE BLOODY UNIVERSE!! That is it, I declare it, therefore it is.” Whatever, joker.

    Anyway, thanks, Steve. It was a great post, but damn that stuff just gets my blood boiling, all these psuedo “intellects” and their “magnificence.” Well, goodnight, I have the fooking flu, can barely see straight and I am typing with a 102 fever…not a good combination.
    Forgive me. 😉
    Peace and love to everyone, even #3.
    Ben V.

  33. avatar
    MEM | 26 February 2007 at 11:00 pm #

    young boyish mormins on my door step today (pendulum full swing) – they listen to ME babble on for 20 min before i realize i was late meeting my dad who needed to go to the wal*mart for his milk.

    i think i broke through to the silent one, i could tell, i mean one can tell when you HEAR truth. like the first time listening to joseph campbell, it felt right, like i had always known this.

    but the other one, the young boyish matt damion look alike, liked my story of the asian culture who never exerienced a ‘fall from grace’ and so still occupied the garden of eden, but was confused by my answer to his question. “well, what do you believe in then?”

    “i believe in divine mystery. that which we cannot know” i said.

  34. avatar
    Tim | 26 February 2007 at 11:25 pm #

    Ah…leave it to steve kilbey to open up this debate…

    Too many people confuse spiritualism with religion…Zealots pervert religion for power. What you spoke of comes from a deep sense of spiritualism which all of us can experience on some level or another. But the atheist, has HIS doctrine, his brand of fundamentalism. I’ve never practiced a religion, but have experienced spiritualism. My father is a Jehova’s Witness and while I think it’s excellent he has found something to believe in, I can not follow the doctrine. My cousin was in a horrific car crash at 19 years old. He died in the hospital as his parents refused to let them give him a blood transfusion. It’s against their teachings. That’s just a little fucked if you ask me. The next week, I walked away from my own demolished pick-up truck after rolling no less than 6 times with only a scratch on my forehead. There are a million stories like this the world over. These are things that religion, nor spiritualism nor science can explain away. Why my cousin and not me???..he was the practising religious one. I was the pot smoking risk taker.

    Some may say that it was a decsion god made to “take him” that’s bull shit…that’s just an answer that is there to help ease one’s mind…No all seeing, all powerful “god” would allow this and the incredibly horrible things that happen in the world to take place. I believe SOME things just happen. I do believe in happenstance. Some things are beyond even god’s control. I’m not an athiest…I may be an agnostic but spiritualism does exist. With or without a god..

    By the way…SK if you believe in you believe there is a Satan? A topic for another day…

    Gee ya can’t leave well enough alone, ya gotta get controversial on us…again…

    thought provoking none the less..


  35. avatar
    Anonymous | 26 February 2007 at 11:42 pm #

    SK, are you aware that the Hindu religion is built on inhumane beliefs: for example, the caste system dehumanises the Dallits (or Untouchables) in the South? They are poor because of the many years of being subjugated to this inequitable social system where to being born in the south and with dark skin equates to “filth” and “evil”. Christianity to the people of Kerala is literally a God-send, because it tells them God loves them all, and moreover, their poverty is not a sign of God’s chastisement. Also, what about the practice of burning widows? That’s pretty gruesome don’t you think?

    As for the American Indian Culture, you have followed the script of the “noble savage” idea. Did you know some practiced cannibalism? And scalping heads ain’t exactly a wholesome past time either.

    Basically, with Christianity came the “Golden Rule”. This is the bedrock of a humane society. There is no “eye for an eye” mentality here. And before you go accusing Christianity of indifference towards animals, remember that there are thousands of Christian vegetarians. In fact, the early Church fathers equated meat eating as demonically inspired. Just do a google of Christian vegetarians and you’ll see there are many.

    So anyway, the point of my post is this. Christianity is a humane religion that brought enlightenment to people around the world. It is the genuine article. Don’t blame Jesus for all the madness in the world. Don’t blame him for the atrocities committed in his name. If you don’t believe that Jesus is the Son of God, your existence is meaningless. Your suffering is meaningless. Your hope futile.

    Read the New Testament with an open heart.

  36. avatar
    Richard | 26 February 2007 at 11:45 pm #

    there are at least two problems with logic

    1) it is man made

    2) because of (1), it struggles to cope with the most abundant ‘thing’ of all – infinity

    throw in words (also man made) and what hope is there of getting to the bottom of all this?

    I reckon the bible is pretty close with “god is life” – but I’d put it around the other way

    life is god

  37. avatar
    Daberhasher | 26 February 2007 at 11:51 pm #

    your river floweth in a
    most excellent manner this day…
    but really, what’s so tough about god creating evolution… oh yeah, people would have to agree, that is tough… and i don’t always agree with myself, but i think i’m onto something here, or just on something, but that’s a given… finding god = searching, every day, all the time… but it’s everywhere, that’s all i really know… but truth be told, i’ve come to like the maybees and the mysterees… surrendered to my smallness and was engulfed by the beauty… well, on a good day…..

    bitchin’ blogge man…


  38. avatar
    fantasticandy | 26 February 2007 at 11:57 pm #

    steve,you know the ‘nepenthine’e.p. we sent you,
    you know the very first song on it,
    ‘little white truths’?
    well here are the lyrics:

    The power of computers growing expeditiously,
    Project it to the future into virtual infinity,
    Existence recreated to the very last detail,
    Alive or replicated? How could we tell?

    If we decode the programme would the heavens crack and fall?
    Is life defined by experience when the chances are we don’t exist at all.

    God smiled and saw it was good,
    Well we always knew he would,
    Raised a finger to his head
    And blew his brains out
    God is dead.

    Sorry to offend you, your beliefs are wrong.
    There’s no point to praying, or singing your dumb songs.
    All you’ve got is what you see,
    That’s all there’ll ever be.
    All you are is all you do,
    Over when your life is through.
    This is reality.

    God smiled and saw it was good,
    Well we always knew he would,
    Raised a finger to his head
    And blew his brains out
    God is dead.

    Cosmic dance, chemical chance,
    A combination of circumstance

    Cosmic dance, chemical chance,
    A combination of circumstance

    Cosmic dance, chemical chance,
    A combination of circumstance

    But who put the stars in the sky?

    The jangling lips of trivia
    That stupefies your soul,
    And numbs your brain like opium
    As it tightens their control.
    If you find the answer, tell me,
    To know would be divine,
    The big black lies I can cope with,
    It’s the little white truths that kill you every time.

    Who put the stars in the sky?

    Who put the stars in the sky?

    Creationist theory, intelligent design,
    Preached by fanatics, indoctrinating minds,
    When the truth is so obvious, everyone knows,
    Time is a sphere with continuity enclosed.
    The universe within is a moebius strip,
    And we perceive but a part of it,
    And the limitations of your faith
    Don’t explain the nature of time and space.
    The stardust recycled goes round and round,
    No energy is lost, it can only transform,
    And the carbon in your body, forged inside a star,
    How does it feel to have travelled so far?

    Misinterpretation of the mistranslated words,
    End of days met with rapture-us applause,
    One brick slips and the whole house falls,
    What’s the name of the god of the dinosaurs?
    It’s too big and we’re too small
    To try to make sense of it all,
    Rearrange the bits to make them fit,
    You lazy lying hypocrite.
    After two thousand years of your fairy stories,
    Two thousand years of your goddamned glory,
    The legacy it leaves is the real disgrace,
    The mocking ghosts, of greater men,
    Are laughing in your face.

    guess what it’s about?

    yeah, that’s right…..#3!!!!!!

    see how close we are my brother?

    it’ll be on the website from the 28th.

    isn’t life strange?
    masses of love and respect,
    andy L.

  39. avatar
    Not The Church...But Damn Close | 27 February 2007 at 12:23 am #

    Merely deducing one aspect from a selection of their most wonderful songs..

    If you’re in Auckland, New Zealand today..

    TONIGHT – Tuesday 27 February

    P.R Bar

    Ponsonby Road, Auckland, NZ

  40. avatar
    ed in fl | 27 February 2007 at 12:29 am #

    Steve – reading a book you may get a kick out of. Eric Idle (monty phython fame) tour diary called “Greedy Bastard Diary.” About his travels thru North America in 2005. He is a vegetarian, like you, also married to an American and not that much older than you. I think a lot there that you can relate to. (And you guys in the church even went on your own “Greedy Bastard” tour here in the states!

    ed in fl

  41. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 1:30 am #

    when comments are down, religion is always a reliable means of going back up the charts…

  42. avatar
    Daniel 12 | 27 February 2007 at 1:44 am #

    “With our thoughts we create the world”
    As a kid that opening buddist saying from the tv show Monkey
    blew my mind.
    As an adult i still see an element of truth to it though it’s not that black or white.
    Inividual spriitual notions are often crushed by the steel capped boots of the mainstream.
    The mainstream today seems to be increasingly polarised between religious fundementalism and science based atheism.(I guess there’s godless mindless consumerism too but lets not talk about that). Personaly i dont think any of the formentioned are healthy states of mind and i find Nietzchesque god is dead philosopies as scary as fundementalism.
    I’ll never forget the look of dead eyed horror on Kerry Packers face when Ray Martin asked him whats on the other side.
    Kerry had just had a near death experience and his frightening answer was “i tell you what Ray ,there’s nothing there”. Perhaps it’s just that his thoughts created his world.A billionare with nothing better to do than piss his wealth against the wall in casino’s.How people formulate there morality without spituality still baffels me. Maybee we are just shadows and dust but dont try to prove it to me, It’d make me miserable.

    You know it’s ironic that Charles Darwin is championed by science based athiests and reviled by religious fundementalists.
    You see Charles Darwin beleived in god and was a Christian.
    He saw no conflict between his religious beleifs and his chosen field of study.
    He was dismayed when his work was seen as so contoversial and against his faith.
    Charles Darwin regarded the evolution of the species as part of the miracle of gods design.
    I’m not making this up , it’s well documented. So many people attack Darwinism with out even reading about him.

    Speaking of Nietzche I read this funny tale in Bono’s book Bono on Bono. Bono told this tale of how someone had graffiti’d
    “God is Dead. Nietzche” on a Dublin wall. Underneath this someone else later added “Nietzche is Dead. God”..

  43. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 1:56 am #

    that indian sages and scientists agree on the vibration thing says it all for me,
    but what i don’t get is how people continue to ignore vibrations that work for them and support them, making them feel light and instead choose the lower levels that drain them and contain them based on illogical illusions

  44. avatar
    veleska1970 | 27 February 2007 at 2:20 am #

    what can i say? you said it all.

    you speak the truth, steve.

  45. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 2:30 am #

    Thank you for your blog today.
    George Harrison said there is nothing more important than knowing god (I paraphrase) and I could not agree more.
    The understanding of human consciousness is the next great arena of scientific exploration. Science is just one way of many of searching for ultimate truth (reality).

    From Science to God: A Physicist’s Journey into the Mystery of Consciousness – Peter Russell

    How to Know God – Deepak Chopra

    The Field – Lynne McTaggart

  46. avatar
    Belfrank | 27 February 2007 at 4:18 am #

    Killa – what a blog!

    God is in every living thing – whether it recognises him or not.

    I see him in your work and what it gives to me. I see him in my family and what they mean to me.

    This numba 3 brain is sadly lacking faith – the ability to recognised that he is not and cannot be all-knowing – i.e. Human.

    I get my bus home from Harvard every evening and believe me, from what I see there – it ain’t the top of the intellectual food chain.

    I’m not in the top 10 intellectuals (not officially at least) – but like you SK, I’m smart enough to know there has to be a God when I open my eyes every morning.


  47. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 4:25 am #

    Gareth of Notts.

    Can you have a word with Number 3 please?

  48. avatar
    ...being here, doing this... | 27 February 2007 at 4:59 am #

    you know…there’s a lot to be said for “not knowing”

    i don’t mean the “not knowing” of an agnostic…but the “not knowing” that stems from a genuine humility, that fosters a willingness to always keep the mind open

    people spend lifetimes arguing…trying to prove this, or disprove that

    it’s a circular path

    the only real way to transcend the treadmill is to hop off

    we focus on the argument, because we think the treadmill is what keeps us going

    only when we hop off, do we see that it’s really the other way around

    rather than seeking an answer, perhaps we can approach the whole issue another way

    by focusing on our behaviour…how we treat people, how we treat the environment, how we treat ourselves…by understanding that we are all part of a greater whole, and that our intentions, words and actions ripple outwards, and contribute to the ongoing creation of this whole…may we come to see that our arguments are, in fact, distractions created by us to avoid doing what is of most importance in this life

    for example, instead of physically and mentally challenging destructive emotions within us, and the pain they cause when expressed…we distract ourselves with a philosophical debate on the nature of anger

    the true path is simple and obvious

    but it is also, by far, the most difficult

    many of us are oblivious to the war that goes on inside…and because it can be so painful to see and feel, we avoid it by focusing our attention externally

    but in so doing, we are continuing to create our world unconsciously…a path that can only lead to the creation of more pain

    an example of the true spiritual path is this…

    become aware of the bodily sensations that occur with emotions…eg the tightened chest, the boiling blood, the flushed face, the churning stomach….and learn to endure these with patience, while responding to their “external trigger” (the inconsiderate neighbor, the arrogant bully) in a firm but calm, peaceful and constructive way

    challenging anger, addictions, dependencies…all require this kind of self observation and disciplined response

    but hardly anyone does this

    look around…people yelling, arguing, fighting…armies invading, bombing, destroying

    all of them in pain….stomachs churning, blood boiling, faces flushed…

    how few of us realise the true nature of the enemy

    the real enemy is within

    this is the enemy that drives us to react angrily and violently

    we want the churning, the boiling, the flushing inside us to stop

    and we think the way to do this is to conquer the “external trigger”

    but the only way to true liberation is to feel and endure the internal suffering without reacting in a way that causes further harm to ourselves or to others

    and once we embark on this path, we will find our lives so interesting and challenging, that arguments and philosophical debates will lose their allure

    we will have stepped off the treadmill

  49. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 5:03 am #

    Christianity is a humane religion that brought enlightenment to people around the world.

    You’ve got to be joking. More genocide has occurred in the name of JC than anyone else.

    Get OFF of it psycho.

    Intelligent design is nothing more than organized stupidity.

    Imagine no religion.
    YOU can’t, your to programmed.

  50. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 5:06 am #

    at least fucking read what your bitching about this time kilbey and you others

  51. avatar
    Celticat | 27 February 2007 at 5:33 am #

    Hey anonymous!- get a grip.

    Nobody needs that kind of language, here or anywhere else

    one of the others

  52. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 5:35 am #

    w/e celticat…. people swear here all the time, grow up!

    just what IS your IQ anyway mr. Kilbey?

  53. avatar
    Daniel 12 | 27 February 2007 at 5:55 am #

    Hi there Anonymous above 4.35.

    Did you know that IQ scores have nothing to do creativity.

    Someone with a high IQ can have
    very little real creativity and visa versa.

  54. avatar
    Centuryhouse | 27 February 2007 at 6:24 am #

    Satan said…
    (Funny, if man evolved from apes, why do we still have apes?)

    “It’s when people say stupid shit like that that makes me real sad. Obviously you don’t know shit.

    I piss on the shoes of your doorstep darkeners when they come knocking. “

    ‘Satan’ – I know the fan that you are quoting and bashing with your comments.

    Agree or disagree with his beliefs, he is a sincere in putting them forward & is an intelligent man as well as a big fan of the Church who has done much for other fans. He is one of the best people you’ll meet.

    Right or wrong in his beliefs, he is certainly a large ‘evolutionary’ leap beyond you, and certainly has more class than you.

  55. avatar
    syrinx | 27 February 2007 at 7:00 am #

    I start a half-semester condensed class on the philosophy of religions on 19 March…it will be interesting to see how they “condense” that. Much less tie it all up as to what you need to know for an acceptable grade.


    I anticipate!


  56. avatar
    relic | 27 February 2007 at 7:01 am #

    I like to hedge my bets so I will believe in God until Im safely through those pearly gates and then I will deny there’s life on earth.

  57. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 7:27 am #

    Dear Daniel

    Yes I know IQ has nothing to do with creativity (duh who doesn’t), that’s not the issue. Mr. Kilbey often refers to his high IQ yet spouts half truths and BS like its fact. I just wanted to know for the record what it is.

  58. avatar
    PAGEY | 27 February 2007 at 7:50 am #

    the fucking 10 000 ufo ark of the creator came and planted the 10 000 x 10 000 things on our primordial and blessed sphere we call earth.

    They came and set us all up in an immaculate puzzle.

    They came and they went.

    10 000 false prophets mire the earth past and future. The Kingdom whithers for free will reigns and truth is kept secret at best.

    Illusions (10 000 unordered thoughts and vibes) are stripped away through years of meditation and the truth will stream in.

    Seek the highest truth by opening up one’s mind to the universe all around. Forget all you know, it is all false. Seek until you are sent a satisfactory answer. It could be beyond all you had ever dreamed and unable to be described or contained in any book anywhere on earth. And our science will never capture it or bottle it.

    Saved by 0 (Zero)


  59. avatar
    Glenn | 27 February 2007 at 7:54 am #

    We cloned sheep therefore God exists,

    The Supremem God has a twin God and they have a GOD also.

    Kick the dog, we are gods. There are Gods, false gods, misnamed mortals of the blob

    and of course Shrek~!

  60. avatar
    Albert Camus | 27 February 2007 at 7:57 am #

    I would rather live my life as if there was a God and die and find out there is not,
    than live a life not believing in God and die and find out there is one!

  61. avatar
    kat | 27 February 2007 at 8:00 am #


    nice blog! i have friends that don’t believe in god and it is unsettling to me. i totally believe in god, though i think i expect too much, as we all do. my parents are with god and i know it. they send me signs all the time.

  62. avatar
    eek | 27 February 2007 at 8:12 am #

    Albert Camus said…
    I would rather live my life as if there was a God and die and find out there is not,
    than live a life not believing in God and die and find out there is one!

    That view has always struck me as being lily-livered and well, kind of futile. If you think there might be a god who cares if you believe in it, don’t you think it will be able to know that you are believing only as a “I don’t want to burn in hell” insurance policy?

    If you believe because you actually believe, that’s fine, but to fake it…. I just can’t see where it would do you much good.

    (unless you are a politician and wanted to get elected — then it’s helpful to play holy. but all politicians are going to hell anyway — whether there is a god or not! 😉 )

  63. avatar
    Daniel 12 | 27 February 2007 at 8:25 am #

    Dear Anonymous. 6.22pm

    Perhaps I’ve missed it but I don’t beleive i’ve ever read Mr Kilbey refer to his high IQ.

    But for the record someone with a high IQ can also be full of half truths and BS.

    Take the currently visiting Dick Cheney for example.

    Besides being no test of creativity
    IQ tests are also a flawed test of intellect. My own brother had a very high IQ yet was quite mad.

    I don’t think IQ has much relevence to todays disscussion exept perhaps in relation to why no 3 is regarded as no 3.

    It was a great blogg but yes I agree there is an element of BS in there .

    JUST WHO IS NO 3. ?

    He’s just a defenceless strawman if you dont tell us his name.

    I wonder if no 1 or 2 beleive in god ? Who are no 1, 2 and 3 anyway ?

    I wonder if no 3 is very happy ?

    It’s all a bit like the prisoner really.

  64. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 8:30 am #

    Being almost a physical part of our mothers for years while being babies leads us to reason “a greater presence of some kind” later on.

    Our ape mind is also wired to calculate social intrigue. This leads to the idea of believing “someone” to be behind reality.

    “Just because you feel it doesn’t mean it’s there”.

  65. avatar
    triantelope | 27 February 2007 at 8:36 am #

    the scientists n thinkers of every age
    think that they got it all sussed
    but nothing like a hundred years to disprove a few facts

    Science never claims to understand everything. Thats the beauty of science – it’s constantly being updated and refined – everything is open to re-evaluation.

    i mean he isnt promoting anarchy or hedonism
    hes just saying
    look we have descended from monkeys

    It’s a common misconception that evolutionists believe we descended from monkeys and apes. They don’t and we didn’t. We are closely related to monkeys and apes in that our common ancestor with them was much more recent than our common ancestor with any other living thing.

    how about this one
    there was no beginning
    everything was always here
    men women squirrels whales wasps apple trees thistles stones shells
    the whole fucking she-bang
    always always always here

    Sure… except that that the geological, archaeological, paleontological, biological and cosmological evidence pretty much rules it out.

    maybe youre not right
    and this evolution thing
    this accidental thing
    i mean this is some complex accident
    an accident that imitates design

    There’s nothing accidental about evolution. Natural selection occurs according to an organism’s suitability to the environment in which it lives. The imitation of design arises when millions of years of tiny incremental changes produce lifeforms to fill every niche in the environment.

    i just dont feel darwinism
    im sorry
    im sorry
    where are the birds with half a wing
    and turtles with half a shell?

    Such things emerge incrementally over time, arising from more primitive forms, not as complete pieces of the final product.

    Of course, none of this is incompatible with belief in a transcendent creator. But for me, the beauty, majesty and intricacy of nature are sufficiently mysterious and awe-inspiring to keep me going. Evoking a god just seems like an easy way out of the mystery, which ultimately doesn’t explain anything at all, because you then have the question of where god came from.

    Thought-provoking blogge nonetheless…


  66. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 9:26 am #

    I wish you were right.
    But you’re not.

  67. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 10:03 am #

    I feel you Sk
    I ve gathered more wisdom from whispers and reverberations of the spiritual minds of the deceased,
    More than Ive been able to comprehend all of the glories and catastrophes in nature,
    Yes, the cycles of life are evolving,
    Evolution is a reality, Science explains it rationally,
    its all integrated
    God is not just a word
    as for some it is..
    for some it easily becomes the greatest thing because its fun to quantify our forces and give them nicknames,
    for others its a way of life
    a way of perceiving everything.
    Dont let it bother your mind Sk
    Science is relevent and most athiests probably love the earth as much a I do.
    And its just about perspective..
    Scientists also find that the mind is extremely activated when in Meditation a process that they cannot explain or measure, its a phenomenon, they cant make a pill for it, its a combination of process, a cultivation of mind, breath, peace, consciousness, Yoga in is full essence can be considered a scientific discipline, and its the internal connection to the essence

    within the whole experience of life lies a wisdom, a clarity, an organic explanation and it is Yoga

    Belief in God is elementary
    Knowledge of God is power

    Good looking out

    jaime r…

  68. avatar
    fawn | 27 February 2007 at 10:27 am #

    I think I attended the same mystery school- a Cathederal school in Europe (I think England) in the early to mid 15th century. We studied Aristotelian philosophy, mysticism, astrology/astronomy (yes it was us medieval monks who slaved over those astronomical tables we still use today), vegetarianism of course, alchemy and advanced techniques of yoga ( similar to kriya yoga involving pranayama).
    There are other options other than Darwinism and Intelligent Design. H.P. Blavatsky’s huge volumes, Isis Unveiled and the Secret Doctrine tell a different story again and in a way, sort of encompass both theories but is so far beyond both. Problem is the volumes are so dense with information, it takes about a day to get through one page and you need a study group to really understand it.
    Belief and logic will only get us so far. It’s only experience that really matters and some people are just not capable of transcendental experiences. As you said, this is often because they’ve not even tried. Yogis (and mystics of all religious and spiritual persuasions) spend years totally dedicated to study, yoga, prayer and meditation in order to pierce through the delusional nature of this world. Once you’ve experienced the worlds beyond, it really doesn’t matter what any scientist or intellectual says. All you can do is have a giggle.

  69. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 12:13 pm #

    I used to work for a woman who was the president of Mensa for a while…and you know what…she was very, very forgetful! Don’t know how it works as she was searingly intelligent.

    Her chosen profession?

    She was a sculptor.


  70. avatar
    captainmission | 27 February 2007 at 1:07 pm #

    i read that dawkins book and my one critisism of it is he seems to think that these religious/spriritual texts should be taken as literal transalations, when in actual fact i would consider it very foolish to do so. I know a number of people belive these things fundamentally and that seems to be where the trouble starts.
    and why can’t evolution and intelligent design co exist as ideas, it seems perfectly reasonable that evolution is driven by some sort of intelligent mechansism or being, that is privy to the multi dimentional bigger picture.
    science and magick appear to look the same, to the observer

  71. avatar
    Anonymous | 27 February 2007 at 3:01 pm #

    Dawkins only mentions negative aspects of religion.

  72. avatar
    gator | 27 February 2007 at 3:39 pm #

    Anti-meat and anti-Darwin. They don’t make bumper stickers for the time being.

    God plays bass.

  73. avatar
    gareth,notts | 28 February 2007 at 12:28 am #

    give me no.3s address n i’ll have a word!;) whose no.s 1 and 2? sk maybe??

  74. avatar
    Samosanx | 28 February 2007 at 8:51 pm #

    yo captainmission.
    I second that.


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